Nissan Factory Steel wheels - Advice needed

Post by **Russ Kellermann** » 06 Apr 2011 11:47

Guys, i wrote off my rim other day , front left. Also, my BFG km2 is buggered. Got a quote from Nissan for new rim = R1900 exl vat . I'm gonna have to put in a claim for rim , tyre, and possible steering damage (pending a once over by first alignment centre (johan Viloen off LC club) , as the guys at my local Tiger wheel and tyre reckon if the steering wheel is cock eyed there is no adjustment that can be done and that something is wrong. ???

Anyway, more about that later,

Is a silver Nissan Factory steel rim issued on Patrols stronger than a pro white after market rim ?

And

If the steering wheel is now cockeyed, does it mean that the splines in the box may have shifted or something?

Jees guys , i'm worried.

Ps: i hit a stair case at very low speed ( about 5km per hour ) , but had a huge impact due to the high face of the staircase , which pulled the rim open and also pinch cut and gouged my sidewall. Feel like an idiot. But, very worried as i am now driving on my spare....

Post by **Peter Connan** » 06 Apr 2011 12:01

Hi Russ

I am convinced that the Nissan rim is a much better design than the pro-white, although the pro-white is made of thicker material. The web of the pro-white wheel (the piece that has the bolt holes in) is a nearly flat plate which is welded into the ring section onto which the tire mounts somewhere in the middle of it's width. This means that the ring section flexes slightly with every rotation, and will eventually fail due to metal fatigue. This failure will take the form of a crack in the ring section at the point where the web is welded on. This can lead to sudden loss of tire pressure, which can be pretty scary.

The pro white is thicker steel though, so it may be less prone to dents like the one you have now experienced.

However, unless the pro-white has exactly the same width and offset as your factory wheels, you should not use one with Nissan wheels on the other corners of the car, so you would have to buy 4 or 5 of them.

not sure what damage could have resulted, but it could be a shift on the pitman arm which is not really splined, but merely grooved for extra grip. It is however also possible that something may be bent.

Good luck
Peter

Post by **davejones** » 06 Apr 2011 15:03

dude that sucks - i imagine it keep you awake at night with hot sweats and mental rants!

My steering wheel is at half past one, apparently the only remedy is to take the steering wheel off and put it back on straight

hope there's no damage dude

think the nissan rim is very similar to cruiser in strength

Post by **Russ Kellermann** » 06 Apr 2011 15:40

Guys, i agree.

I believe the patrol rim is of superior quality to the pro white.

went to tiger wheel and tyre (tokai) today (they know me there and the history of my wheels and vehicle. the rim is a write off, and the tyre can be used as a spare, so i'm really bummed out.

Prob one - My wheel alignment guy said the there must be something bent because the steering wheel cannot be adjusted (ie: the only way it can go out of centre is if it is taken off - or - bent on the axle/control arms/linkages etc etc.)

I kak'd myself and went pale immediately.

They started talking about replacing entire sections of my vehicle inc the above mentioned parts, which made me vomit in my mouth a little.

I took my stuff, went home and called Johan Viloen (johan tyres) from the Landcruiser site. He's got first alignment centre out in stikland and is hihgly respected and regarded as the Guru of all things wheels/steering/etc.

He inspected my vehicle - it didn;t sound good. (i kept looking on the bright side though as my vehicle still ran as true now as it did the day before the accident, NO drifting or pulling at all, it was just the steering wheel that was cockeyed....but how if nothing was damaged ???)

He says that with a collision like i had, the very narrow part of the axle , at the end, just before the hub/steering/brake assembly starts , can actually bend. He told me that he has seen it many times on cruisers. The only way to remedy this was to replace the ENTIRE AXLE housing!!! Once again a little more vomit.

He told me not to panic and busted out the hardware ,.... tape measures,verniers,spirit levels,even the good old fashioned eye, you name it. After a lengthy period he moved my troll to the other side and went through wheel diagnostics tests and a wheel alignment assessment.

Good news - its still all within spec and he sees no damage or future issues. To clear things up though i'm gonna get print outs of the other wheel alignments i've done at TWAT, and send them to him for a comparrison.

We set the steering wheel straight by means of removing the nut and pull it off the splines and reset, and it ran like a dream all the way home...

Now: I still think i'm gonna put in a claim for a new Nissan rim and a BFGkm2, luckily for the insurers (and my premuim), a new axle body will not be needed.(wonder how much one would go for from nissan?)

Bit pissed off that i will have a new tyre now, but my others are only 5mm down from new spec, so not too bad i guess.

Will post pic of my rim and tyre tonight.

Post by **Peter Connan** » 06 Apr 2011 15:56

Eish Boet

If that thin section of the axle is bent, then a comparison between between old and new wheel alignment printouts should definately show a difference. Bending that should result in the front wheel being moved back a few millimeter.

I still think it was probably the pitman arm shifting on the steering box shaft.

Cheers
Peter

Post by **Russ Kellermann** » 06 Apr 2011 20:43

hey,

Well, i got my results from previous wheel alignments done (apparently they keep the records for up to ten years , so i went and asked for mine, cool hey) , so now i can analyse the dtat from today in comparison to the history of date from previous settings, also, this would help in an insurance claim should it had been bad enough. Gonna send it to Johan to look at, and i'll post result here.

Pete, i hope you right. and i'm gonna have another look tomorrow to put my mind at rest.

Good thing is that all is still within spec and drives straight as an arrow, good times.

Downside is that i must put in a claim for R5500 odd bucks, along with another claim for R70k for when they broke into our place in the same week. M&F are gonna rape my premium,...again!

Post by **AndriesS** » 07 Apr 2011 06:58

You could also have bent the rod between the steering arm and wheel (the one with the damper) or the one between the two wheels (I can't remember the names for those now). Both will definitely have the effect of rotating your steering wheel .

Post by **Gerrit Loubser** » 07 Apr 2011 08:26

Peter Connan wrote:I am convinced that the Nissan rim is a much better design than the pro-white, although the pro-white is made of thicker material. The web of the pro-white wheel (the piece that has the bolt holes in) is a nearly flat plate which is welded into the ring section onto which the tire mounts somewhere in the middle of it's width. This means that the ring section flexes slightly with every rotation, and will eventually fail due to metal fatigue.

Peter, I assume that you are referring to the fact that the wheel disc on the Nissan steel wheel is dished where it joins to the rim band. I agree that such a dished rim design is stonger in principal if the dished disc is pressed into the rim band so that there is a high degree of contact between the two parts. This then ensures that much of the load is transferred in the contact interface and not by the weld that joins the disc and rim band. Not all dished rims are made this way, though. If a dished disc does not achieve contact with the rim band, then the rim might end up being inferior to a simple rim with non-dished disc.

On the other hand, it is quite possible to make a rim where the disc is not dished and is simply welded to the rim band that still achieves acceptable fatigue life, if the material thickness of the rim parts is selected correctly. Most articulated dump trucks (the ones in construction and mining that carry 30 or 40 tonnes of payload) use simple rims like these and they are quite satisfactory in that application in terms of durability.

Peter Connan wrote:This failure will take the form of a crack in the ring section at the point where the web is welded on. This can lead to sudden loss of tire pressure, which can be pretty scary.

I agree that it is highly likely that any fatigue failure would initiate in the rim band at the toe of the weld where the disc is attached. Once the crack has propagated through the rim band, a slow leak will develop. There should not be any sudden loss of pressure, because the crack will be quite small at this point. The loss of pressure would alert the driver to the fact that all is not well with the rim before disaster is imminent. The rims are normally designed so that fatigue failures are unlikely to initiate on the other toe of the same weld (i.e. on the wheel disc) first, because such a failure could remain undetected until the rim band and disc part company with possible dangerous results.

Peter Connan wrote:The pro white is thicker steel though, so it may be less prone to dents like the one you have now experienced..

It is quite likely that the Pro White rims are made of thicker steel in order to ensure durability despite not having dished discs, but having not been involved with the design of those, I would not know for sure.