Steering Shimmy / DW - Gatvol

[Russ Kellermann]

Hi Guys,

Yes, its been discussed before, and we all know what im talking about, Death Wobble (DW) / Shimmy. I posted something a while back but now im just at the end of my patience here, and before i effect a fix i would like to be as accurate as possible to avoid overspend at this time of year.

Story goes:

1)All good with my troll, take it to my usual guys for wheel balancing,rotating and alignment.
2)Pick up Troll, drive away, terrible shaking at 80km/h
3)Take it back 3 times for wheel balancing, still the same.
4)They tell my wheels are buckled, take it to 3 specialist , they say they are pretty good and nothing to much to worry about.
5)Take it to Gerhard (GMAN) , check under steering linkages, all tight and good (2007 model pickup 130 000km on the clock).
6)GMan and i go for a drive (GMAN hanging out the window!!! Thanks GMAN),appears its not the back that was shaking (as per my side mirrors), but actually the cab/front-end that is shaking.
7)Take it back to my usual wheel alignment guys, get print out for this alignment AND last alignment and tell them to set it back to the last alignment spec.
8)Drive away, things are definitely better but certainly not gone.
9)Now, 2 frustrating months later, im in the Transkei and i can feel a very (VERY) slight ,and faint, knock (felt through the steering wheel) when the front tyres hit bed rock/hard stone (Only felt at relatively low speed gravel driving or putting along a jeep track.) It was this that got me worried and things started to point to the front hub assembly area (in my mind)....

Now im about to sort this out and i need advice . I have trawled the web on the Auzzi site too, of course.

Im now wondering if it isnt the King pin that have gone out (Loose?). At this point i must point out that this pert of the vehicle is not my strong-point so p[lease excuse any ignorance exhibited. Problem is, i have the Max Ellery Manual and it doesn't illustrate the king pin assembly at all , which is very frustrating. If it is this item at fault, could i trust Nissan Tokai to sort this out?

Could it be the wheel bearings? How often do they need to repack them? Mine ,as far as i know, have never been repacked. However, the rim specialist that checked said he tested the place on the bearing and there was no cause for concern..... Again, is Nissan Tokai competent enough to remedy this should it be the culprit?

Steering linkages seem all good, but out of interest, how would one "Split" the ball joints etc, is it a special tool?

At this point i must also reiterate that my Steering damper (Nissan Original) is blown to hell, and has been so since the vehicle had 50 000km on the clock with absolutely no difference to handling..... weird , i know, perhaps its time to replace that item in the hopes it produces some miracle of driving stability, im doubtful though.

Please shed advice if you have so i can spearhead a fix.

Thanks lads.

Russ

[ChristoSlang]

Steering linkages seem all good, but out of interest, how would one "Split" the ball joints etc, is it a special tool?

Russ, I don't have an answer for you, but I do have the genuine Nissan ESM for the Y61!

Patrol Y61 ESM.png (195.42 KiB) Viewed 2675 times

PM me your address and I'll e-mail the complete section (troubleshooting, maintenance, service, etc.) on the front axle to you. It may just explain things in an evero so subtly different way from the Max Ellery manual and thus help to shed some light on it all...

PS: The front axle bit is only 1 Mb in size, so it won't choke your mailbox

[David]

Hi Russ I have the same electronic manual as Christo and are maybe a bit closer to Cape Town if you want to pick up a copy

Your wheel bearings are easy to check if there are play and they can cause your problems. Simply jack up the front wheel and hold the tyre at 3 & 9 o clock. Now see if you can wiggle it. There should be no play. Repeat on other side. If there are play you need to tighten the nut that holds the bearing
I do this with every service.

[Russ Kellermann]

Thank you both very much for those kind offers.

Christo : email is: russellkellermann@hotmail.com Please can you send that to me, i would be very pleased.

David: I will take you up on your offer, can i arrange a time that suits both of us, prob next week, i will pm you for address etc or a place to meet as i imagine its far to large to email anyways! haha, that is very cool, thanks..

[Russ Kellermann]

Response from Peter Connan:

Russ, is it a shimmy, or a real death wobble?

The real death wobble is so bad that when it strikes you are convinced that you are about to die, as just about you cannot control it at all.

Either way, they are caused by pretty much the same problems. The most likely suspect on Patrols seem to be the panhard rod bushes. Next up are wheel balance or a bent rim or one that was fitted onto some dirt, so that it doesn't bolt on straight. Next likely cause could be worn ball joints (any of them), also there could be a problem in the steering box or on the hub carrier bearings.

If none of the above helps, check all the front suspension bushes.

What is important to remember though is that all live front axles are prone to this, and particularly if it is only a shimmy, it might just point to a very small wheel balance problem and a slightly worn steering damper.

I have a shimmy between 60-70, but I know that it is not a huge problem (it is due to all my suspension bushes being significantly worn) and the cost to try and fix it is not worth the while, but a death wobble is an entirely different matter, and must be attended to.

A good steering damper can mask most of the problems, and may even completely remove the wobble, and I have heard from several sources that the aftermarket (particularly TJM) steering dampers do not last. If you still have the original, try that, but also take your car to Johann Tires (First Alignment Centre) for a decent wheel balance.

[Russ Kellermann]

Hi Pete, i had a laugh at yr comment on certain death. Yes, a month or two ago i read online (Auzzi site) ,and susequently i realised that it may not be be true Death Wobble, however, my shimmy is really bad, particularly around corners going downhill, where the vehicle shakes violently!

My steering damper is still the original item, i never changed to aftermarket, however, the damper has been buggered for almost two years.

I have, in recent months, realised that my rear leaf springs are on the way out in terms of sagging, could this be exacerbating the caster on the front by means of rear sag combined with front lift?

From what you have written would you leave the King pins as is , or do i go ahead and take shims out at the same time as replacing panhard bushes...?

Ps: I have been to Johan Tyres twice now and says all is fine ??? eish.

Thanks for all the help

[AndriesS]

My 5 cents, I also had a very slight shimmy.

3 wheel alignment shops, some specializing in trucks and 4x4 could not fix it - the 4th used the fingers adapter and not the cone on the wheel balancing . On spin up they showed me the wheel is bouncing, rotated the wheel on the rim 180 degrees as well as balance and my problem was gone.

In between all these balancing acts, i also replaced the panhard bushes , steering damper - none made a difference. I tightened the kingpin bearing a bit and it did help a small bit but the problem remained.

I can't remember where I read it but if my memory serves me right the land cruiser's spec for the force need to turn the hub is twice the Patrol's.

[Herrie]

When I get the whobble on my Safari - the nuts on the bearing is loose and when I tighten it the wobble is gone.

[David]

Herrie, I had the same on my GU - just loose wheel bearings Would like Russ to check but it will be weird if guys like Johan Tyres and other alignment people didn't pick up something that obvious.

[Peter Connan]

Russ, I wrote you a long reply but it seems to have gone missing somewhere. Internet is full of nonsense today, but Il'l try again:

Firstly, the wheel bearings should have been greased at least once by now, at 80-100k km. Jack it up and try to shake the wheel by grabbing it top and bottom, there should be no play at all. If there is any, it could be wheel bearings or kingpins, get somebody to shake while you look to see if there is movement in the hub carriers.

I believe the only correct way to check the kingpins and ball joints for play is to split them off and feel them loose. It is sometimes possible to split ball joints by using just a hammer, but this usually only damages the ball joint's threaded end. There are also two different tools available. The one is a two-pronged fork with a handle, which you hammer in from the side. AVOIDTHIS as it will destroy the seals on the joint. The other type is a hinged assembly cosisting of two levers and a bolt. Buy the biggest one you can find, should cost you about R400-500.

there should be an appreciable drag on the kingpin bearings, and ideally it should be measured using a draw scale. Resist the temptation to make them too tight as this could crack the housings. The ball joints must move smoothly but feel quite tight, and also you should not be able to feel any play.

You do not state what alignment shop you use, have you tried Johann tires? He is well known for being able to solve death wobble problems.

Be aware that incorrectly adjusted wheel alignment cannot cause the shimmy, but excessive toe in might reduce the symptoms.