Defender vs Patrol

[marakasmalan]

Shucks - did not realise, I got dragged into the wrong kind of "trolling". This thread was dead for almost a year. Sorry - looking through it justifiably went quiet as more than enough has been said.

Cheers

[Alex Roux]

In fairness the brits did set the course of the future in many disciplines and made sure we are not reading this forum in German, though in very few instances did they manage to stay at the forefront and unfortunately history have many skeletons of these british pathbreakers strewn along the way.

Hi Marnus,
This debate has merit in being picked up every now and then. Though it is important to keep it knowledge based and not to go down the level of brand debates that tend to happen on the 4x4Community forum.

IFAIK, the Patrol, LC and Pajero all had their genesis with the Jeep and not the Landy.
Jeep first built by American Bantam in 1941 (thereafter Wyllis) and LR first built only in 1947.
Nissan, Toyota and Mitsubishi were part of a post war commission with the purpose to replicate the Jeep in Japan and to boost the Japanese economy after the war.
Ironically the contract was won by Mitsubishi, but this forced Toyota and Nissan to market their product internationally which lead to far greater commercial success than the Pajero.
This forum's history (courtesy of Gerrit Loubser)
http://www.patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.php?t=238

[Clem]

Nissan, Toyota and Mitsubishi were part of a post war commission with the purpose to replicate the Jeep

Imagine where we would be if it was the Kublewagen!

[Tinus lotz]

Clem
I really need to lift a point or two
the guy that started this topic is diesel fan he has bought 2 patrols since then 4.2 pick up and a 4.8 auto
I have nothing against landies some one must drive them no just joking ....
if you use your 4x4 like most of us do then the patrol just seems to fit better for towing boats for driving very lekke on the highway , for doing things on trails that will break most modern 4x4
and the odd overlanding trip ect
the best part of it is that the diffs suspensoin ect is the same on the oldest GQ up to your brand new one if it works dont change it ....
have a look some pages back on what hein said ....
he had a lot of landies for overlanding and saw us testing a borehole on his farm with a patrol
he drove it and went and got one and never looked back
he still has his pick up bit swaped his 4.8 gl for a gelandewagen a month or so ago and after 150000 km not one problem
every person knows that the d4 is a great car but will it bring u back from zambia if it goes into limb mode for what ever reason ????
The simplicity of the patrol with the proven durability makes it a great car and the japs did their homework on this
but you know that otherwise you wouldn't be driving one hey?

[dieselfan]

IMHO, you can't entirely compare the Patrol and the Defender. They're wildly different machines. A fairer comparison would be with the Discovery or Range Rover. An example: Land Rover has had permanent 4wd drive since...before 1984 IIRC. My Patrol doesn't have it yet, some 30-odd years later. Don't get me wrong. I chose to buy a Patrol instead of a Land Rover for a number of reasons. One of them being durability and another its live axles (the GU series being the last with these AFAIK). Its older but well proven technology.

Thought I'd add this PeterC's patrol went through in 4x2.

Clem personally having owned a permanent 4x4 I'm SO SO glad I've gone back to a part time setup. I had an incident with one of my tires and subsequently had to replace it, as the others had milage (1 year old) I bought 2 and put on one axle. The disco couldn't get over 70km/h without the TC going mad and before the TC kicked in, strong left and right pulls, then dropping me down to 40km/h on the highway. Using LandyWorx's recommendation that this is common I put the newer tyres upfront. I was able to do 130km/h without issues. At 150km/h the car would swerve violently when taking a slight bend. IMO for true safety and African travel give me a part time setup. I don't have R20k to replace 4 tyres every time one takes a bashing.

For those interested in the Merc GW check my thread - GW se gat. Look at how many broke down and what brought the spares...altho the OZ army ordered 1200 they don't tell you the gearbox, axles and suspension are different, whereas the UN spec patrol is bought off the show room floor.

[Grant]

Hi Tinus
Agree with what you have said but I also think one needs to go back to the older Trolls, as they do not have any electronic gadgets or systems on them. Your comment on limp mode could also happen to the newer trolls where as the older trolls and defenders (pre-TD5) have very basic mechanical engines. Yes we burn more fuel with less power but reliability is in our favour.

A very good friend has a defender with a 50 mm suspension lift and he goes where I go. The fun part is that he is a boertjie that loves his Landy and beware if you say anything bad, including jokes. Love and respect his passion. I will never say my patrol is better or more reliable because it all depends on how you maintain your vehicle.

Also which vehicle holds the record for the fastest time from London to Capetown

Max Adventure
In October 2010 the Max Aventure team of Mac Mackenney, Chris Rawlings & Steve Mackenney drove a 10 year old Land Rover Discovery 2 Td5 from London to Cape Town covering 10,000 miles through 20 countries in 11 days 14 hours and 11 minutes breaking the current London to Cape Town record of 13 days, 8 hrs 48 mins set in 1963 by Eric Jackson & Ken Chambers.


The record is now held by a Fiat Panda
A pair of British adventurers were celebrating last night after smashing two world records driving 10,300 miles from Cape Town to London - in a lightning fast 10-and-a-half days.
Speedy Philip Young and Paul Brace shaved more than three days off the previous record for the route, crossing the finish line at Marble Arch at 5.30pm yesterday, just 10 days, 13 hours and 30 minutes after they set off from the South African city.
Not only did the pair tear up that record, they also set the fastest time for doing the journey in either direction, beating a previous best set by Brits Mac and Steve MacKenney and Chris Rawlings, going from London to Cape Town in 2010.

Another friend who has an old 60 series cruiser has just completed the Voet in die Hoek rally and no issues. Other newer vehicles had issues but in his opinion, the main reason for their success was the very basic engine and gearbox.

[Clem]

Clem personally having owned a permanent 4x4 I'm SO SO glad I've gone back to a part time setup. I had an incident with one of my tires and subsequently had to replace it, as the others had milage (1 year old) I bought 2 and put on one axle. The disco couldn't get over 70km/h without the TC going mad and before the TC kicked in, strong left and right pulls, then dropping me down to 40km/h on the highway. Using LandyWorx's recommendation that this is common I put the newer tyres upfront. I was able to do 130km/h without issues. At 150km/h the car would swerve violently when taking a slight bend. IMO for true safety and African travel give me a part time setup. I don't have R20k to replace 4 tyres every time one takes a bashing.

Interesting. No, my old Discovery 1 had no ETC but the permanent 4wd was a blessing. The Nissan Patrol setup is definitely stronger. The Land Rover centre diff can be hurt.

For those interested in the Merc GW check my thread - GW se gat. Look at how many broke down and what brought the spares...altho the OZ army ordered 1200 they don't tell you the gearbox, axles and suspension are different, whereas the UN spec patrol is bought off the show room floor.

Says something that does.

[dieselfan]

Grant, the Panda drove tar, barely any gravel. As for the limp modes. On the D3+ it will go into limp mode faster than the less electronic vehicles. Now don't get me wrong Limp Mode is mostly a GOOD thing as basically the car is protecting you and itself from major repairs - in theory atleast. The problem however lies in that the car is only as good as it's sensors and more often than not it's the sensors giving miss information, hence KoosBest saying a laptop is now your toolbox. My experience however showed that the D3 can be a pedantic drama queen. Arguebly more capable than the Patrol offroad (haven't got enough experience with the Trol yet). Yet vs the Pathfinder which has significantly less electronics, sometimes electronics can be MORE reliable than mechanical - take the Patrol stock diff lock for instance. The TC on the Pathfinder is highly unlikely to fail as it's tied into the systems ABS system. On the Disco however I've had the TC and ABS computer switch off cause it was confused, going through a freak winter storm and almost losing control made my mind up. A simple PU is less likely to "crash" than a CPU.

My Pathfinder did all I could have asked and didn't shy away from trails or overlanding abuse. The patrol for my needs is a no nonsense mechanical tank. One which I've followed since back in the late nineties when I saw one go through axle twisters at 60km/h and not break. Spend some time on youtube and you'll see defenders (my fav looks wise 4x4), hiluxes, GW's etc breaking sideshafts etc on relatively simple obstacles. I've yet to read or encouter a Patrol - perhaps due to less volumes but just get under it as Peter says and logic dictates Patrol, plus it does have soul

I also don't buy into the Toyota spares thing - it's against economics. If they were SO reliable why would Sipho sitting under the tree stake his life on it by stocking spares that didn't sell?

[Peter Connan]

There are good arguments both for and against full-time 4x4 setups. Furthermore, the earliest 4x4's often had full-time setups that were later dropped in favor of part-time setups, so I don't think you can call full-time 4x4 "more advanced" or "newer tech" than part-time systems.

Off road, it makes very little difference in my opinion, as long as the usage is taylored to the system. The major difference is how the vehicle reacts at high speeds.

Personally, I prefer a part-time setup, because it is less corrupted and thus you have more options to control the vehicle, but for a majority of drivers (who do not have specific training and experience) full-time is probably safer.

[Tinus lotz]

Strong as a tank ......simple .......reliable. .......old school solid axles.... has a lot of soul. ...flex like there is no to morrow words you font find in landy books hey.....anyway we all love the 4×4 we drive it just depends what you use as a buying decision ....the amount of fuel we burn or reliability. ..........