Value of Dyno Tuning

[Pieter du Toit]

Hi all,

NEVER EVER under estimate the value of having your car dyno tuned. If I did not – I would have had a sure “death of a Patrol” on my hands shortly. Here is the story…

After reading a lot on this forum about EGT’s and Turbo boost measurement and the pro’s (is there any con’s??) of it I decided to start with an EGT Meter – this sounded by far the most important. After trying several 4x4 “dealers” I could not get anybody that was willing to install my EGT pre-turbo (post-turbo yes but that’s no good) on my 3.0L Diesel – mostly it seems because of the awkward positioning of the turbo. So very frustrated I was “complaining” to Hein Burnett when fetching my car from him after the ARB Front Locker installation. Hein referred me to Frans Fourie (Tour de Frans) – and said he is sure Frans will be able to assist me.

I contacted Frans and for sure – Frans was very willing to assist. So one Saturday I am off to meet Frans with probe in the one hand and EMS 2 monitor in the other – this just has to be done. So while Frans is starting to strip my car I was telling him about the overheating problem I was experiencing with my car but said I had the thermostat replaced with the last service not too long ago and it seems to be better. Frans, who was on top of the engine stops – looks at the front of the car and says “ Well no wonder your car is overheating – the fan is sitting the wrong way around”!!! I could not believe what I heard – but trues bob my fan was sitting the wrong way around – blowing air onto the radiator and not sucking it through from the front. Long story short – the fan had to be relaced as well – when Frans took it off it was cracked on 3 places on the seating around the viscus pulley. But 150 bucks later from Moag’s in Elsies River I had a brand new fan – exact same one the agents wanted R1 550-00 for!!!!

So - many cups of coffee and a few hours later I drove off with my EGT system installed – pre-turbo and a very happy man!!! So couple of days later the Du Toit family sets off to Bergkraal for the long weekend – Patrol with Conquest Trailor in tow.

Hitting the N7 the EGT Probe gets put to its first real test – and we hit 805 degrees on an uphill!!!! This I was not happy with – but this trend continued for the remainder of the trip every time we hit the slightest bit of uphill – and driven my car for so long without an EGT I convinced myself something went wrong with the installation. Apart from that the car also did not give me any indication that it was not happy with what was happening in the front under the bonnet.

So back in Cape Town I phoned Frans and told him what the EGT’s did over the trip – and he asked me to bring the car back. Frans checked everything – undid the probe and reposition it – just to be 100% sure. Now its off to the N1 for a test drive – and coming up toetsbult flat foot (the N1 between Durban Rd and Jip de Jager Turnoff) we hit the 800 degree mark going over the top!!! Frans now was not happy at all and said this is not good – but suggested we go to KSD (Kosie Swanepoel Developments) and put the Patrol on the dyno. And then in the same breath we can test the turbo boost as well.

So Frans arranged everything and last week Wednesday night we were off to KSD – put the Patrol on the dyno – installed the dyno’s EGT probe next to mine pre-turbo – drilled a hole in the turbo pipe and connected the dyno’s boost monitor. First run and we hit 795 degrees on the dyno with a mere 0.6 boost on the dyno – absolutely horrifying!! So off comes the actuator and Frans starts playing with the boost. Couple of test later and we are hitting the 1 to 1.1 bar boost on the dyno – now that’s good!!! But the EGT’s are still running up to the 850 mark – which is not good!! Another run or three later and the Patrol is boosting at 1 bar and EGT’s are down to 680 – 700 doing flat foot. Now this is much better!!!

Believe it or not – even with the power loss – my Patrol actually runs better now. It is much more responsive on the throttle – you can actually “feel” the pull and power and under normal driving conditions my EGT’s is now running between 550 – 580 degrees!!!

The past weekend we went for a drive out to Ceres area and back – and the Patrol turns out to be even more economical – I used to average between 6,2 – 6,5 km/l and this weekend trip the Patrol gave me 8,1 km/l. Since this weekend gone by Frans has also installed a boost sensor connected to the EMS monitor – now I can also constantly monitor the turbo boost and will without a doubt know, hear and see if anything goes wrong under the bonnet!!!

Without Frans help I am sure I would have sat with a “dead Patrol” on my hands – maybe even sooner than later. He surely saved my car and myself from thousands of rands in damage – and only because I was ignorant and not knowingly know how important these settings and the monitoring of it is. And even though my car is very well maintained and serviced regularly at the specified intervals – it is not something that was picked up at the servicing agent. With this in mind I ask myself why manufacturers of these vehicles do not have these monitoring capabilities as standard on the vehicles – it could mean the worlds difference in the life of a diesel engine and the money the owner will spend in maintaining his car.

For those who might be as “ignorant and uneducated” as myself – I can HIGHLY recommend Frans Fourie. His dedication and perfectionism that he works with on your car is as if it is his own car – and that says a lot. Frans is very knowledgeable in his field and knows what he is doing and talking about – and will not stop until he has found the source of the problem. That stems from what he has done with my car. Frans Fourie I salute you – you saved my butt – thank you!!!!

And a big thank you to all the other forum members who also share their knowledge and experience with us – I sure have learned a lot here since I joined the forum!!! Thank you to all contributing their input here.

If nothing else I hope my story made some interesting reading to everybody – and hopefully another 1 or 2 blondies like myself have learned something from this!!!

[Gerrit Loubser]

Wow, Pieter, those EGTs in the vicinity of 800 deg C are scary. It shows that the chip installers merely focussed on extracting more power by upping the fueling with no consideration for the engine's durability.

How long (how many km) have you had the chip? I hope that your engine has not suffered too much from internal damage due to the overfueling. Unfortunately the damage accumulates and resolving the overfueling can't undo the damage already done.

[JohnBoyZA]

Wow, this story could have really ended badly. Well done Pieter and Frans and thank you for sharing

[Ross]

Thanks for sharing!

[Saltman]

Pieter

Your story just illustrates one of my serious misgivings about chipping a vehicle! Most installers are after the power and therefore sacrifice longevity.

Frans, ek gaan vir jou kom kuier dat ons kan gesels oor watter roete om te volg met die 4.8!

Thanks for sharing Pieter. This is one of the reasons why this forum is so valuable in the Seoff Efrican context.
Those of us who also subscribe to the LCCSA forum will know that is how the forum grew to were it is today as well!

[Stefan]

Thanks Pieter, this is a great post.

Can you post some pictures of where you mounted the guages in your Patrol?

Which EGT did you end up getting?

[Pieter du Toit]

Stefan wrote

Can you post some pictures of where you mounted the guages in your Patrol?

Which EGT did you end up getting?

Stefan check my postings under thread headings EGT Installed and Boost Sensor Installed - there is photos of everything. My EGT's on open road under normal driving runs between 450 - 480 and with the enigne working goes up to 550 - 600.

I think that's not bad at all - I am still going to do a free Flow system with a bigger pipe (Once again Frans Fourie will be in charge and suggested a 63mm pipe). Once that is done the EGT's will even come down more - we will then look at perhaps getting more boost - which means we can remap the fuelling of the chip and should give me more power!! This will be done at KSD on the dyno again. But we will be careful - I do not want to stretch the capabilities of the engine too much!!!!

Will keep you posted as this progress.

[tour de frans]

Pieter Baie dankie vir die mooi post.Dit is altyd lekker om mense soos jy te ken,dit maak dit net lekkerder om aan jou kar te werk. Ons sien dan die naweek in tierkloof,mooi loop
Groete Frans

[Pieter du Toit]

Gerrit wrote

Wow, Pieter, those EGTs in the vicinity of 800 deg C are scary. It shows that the chip installers merely focussed on extracting more power by upping the fueling with no consideration for the engine's durability.

How long (how many km) have you had the chip? I hope that your engine has not suffered too much from internal damage due to the overfueling. Unfortunately the damage accumulates and resolving the overfueling can't undo the damage already done.

Gerrit the EMS monitor records the higest value of each monitoring function - and one can view it afterwards. The higest EGT reading recorded by the monitor was 888 degrees!!! I hear what you say about chip installers - but in the installer defense who did my chip (and he is not a forum member so I am not buying any face hear!!) I must stretch again that this is a plug & play chip - in other words it is a chip specifically designed for the 3.0L diesel engine and should work fine by just plugging it in - or so they say!!!

Unfortunately that chip has been in since Nov 2007 - and my Patrol has done at least 10 000km since then - ouch so yes please - "moenie spoke opjaag nie asb - ek bid baie hard dat daar nie reeds interne skade plaasgevind het nie" And this is again why I cant understand that the manufacturers of these vehilces do not install these meters and sensor (EGT and BOOST) as factory standard on the vehicles - this should be a must!!!

We went on holiday Dec 2008 to the Richtersveld and were driving around in temperatures of 40 plus degrees everyday - heavily loaded and towing my trailor - this was when I was experiencing so many overheating problems!!! So yes I do not even want to know what the EGT's looked like then!!!

So far so good.... turbo is boosting well and EGT's are now under control - let's hope and continue to pray!!!!

[Gerrit Loubser]

And this is again why I cant understand that the manufacturers of these vehilces do not install these meters and sensor (EGT and BOOST) as factory standard on the vehicles - this should be a must!!!

The manufacturers answer to the issue is electronic engine management. The engine uses sensors to determine the amount of air ingested and then injects an appropriate amount of diesel based upon the air mass flow as well as the accelerator pedal position. If all is well there will be no overfueling. EGT gauges cost money and the vast majority of the people who purchase cars are not as passionate about them as we are and probably won't have a clue as to what the EGT gauge is trying to tell them.

This works out well for some electronically controlled engines, but not for all. I am not an expert on the ZD30 diesel motor in the Patrol, but I am under the impression that it uses an air mass meter (a rather intricate and somewhat fragile instrument) to measure charge air mass. It stands to reason that overfueling could occur if the air mass meter overestimates the air mass flow. Faulty air mass meters are hazardous to engine health and the ZD30 diesel has been known to have some issues, many of which might have a faulty air mass meter as the root cause.

Another electronically controlled motor that is known for head issues in some cases is the Toyota 1KZ-TE, although this motor does not use an air mass meter as far as I am aware.

In the DiD Pajero the engine management system calculates the air mass flow from the information supplied by a number of simple sensors (engine speed, boost air pressure, boost air temperature). It has no air mass meter.