Can or should we trust fitment centers?

[AndriesS]

Why do we always need to check and double check fitment centers. I shudder to think what can and would have happened if I always trusted fitment centers. How many people get suspensions, etc fitted and assume that the fitment centers did their job properly and warned them(the fitment center warn or inform the owner) of possible problems or changes he should consider getting done. I would rate myself as fairly mechanically and practically inclined and even I miss stuff from time to time . Now don't confuse being able to do the work with wanting to do it - many times we don't have the time to do it and thus outsource it. I also try to double check all work but sometimes it is not possible to check everything , typically due to extreme articulation etc.

So early this year (I think) I changed my suspension, got the lift etc. I did pay a fair price and had to quibble a bit as not only was the springs done but the shocks as well (my existing shocks was still fairly new) and I did not have the time to bring the car back and get them changed, so I got a good price.

Sort of strike 1 but not really. if I book my car in, I bring it in very early, why does it feel like it is the last car of the day they work on? Wait till last to collect it, then have to ask for nearly new shocks and where are the rubbers and washers for these.

Real strike 1
Get home check all, rear diff breather pipe disconnected and not refitted. Also rear anti rollbar is at a very obtuse angle . Should they not have advised to have a look at it? Caster is also nearly out of spec, no advise and correction suggestion either. Vehicle performs well, not any serious off road play just some sand and stuff.

Strike 2
I get my tyre check magodi fitted, which gives me a good time to check all the stuffs , kick the tyres, tell the tyre fitter that I'm checking him and not to cross thread my wheel nuts. But alas the suspension guys forgot to mention........

These little rubber pipes looks stretched at close to limit. I can't say if it's full droop , as the suspension lower control arms were resting on the rubber blocks for lifting the car.

Now I know the these pipes are fairly sturdy but imagine you clear an obstacle, lifting the car a bit and they let go....


I'm not expecting the fitment shop to change them, but it would have been nice if they did a check and told me about it. How many owners have the facilities at home to check this, yes I can strap the winch to a roof truss and lift it but I'm gonna look for serious trouble.

So after this long rant, I'm just wondering
1) how many 4x4's are out there that are in danger from these workshops not informing owners of possible dangers, I'm doubtful in the ability of these workshops to do inspections and advise on any remedies if they can't even fit a suspension without any recommendations .
2) how many owners are blissfully unaware of potential problems and trust that the fitment centers did their job .

Would be interesting what fitment center owners say where they feel there responsibility ends.


PS , those rubber pipes are brake pipes and very important and by the looks if you do a 50mm lift properly you must consider replacing them with slightly longer ones, also fixing the angle of rear control arm , look at the load sensing valve etc.

[ricster]

I know exactly how you feel.... Had my coils and shocks replaced by a well known company on the east rand..... didn't crawl under the Patrol when I got it home and check everything........ Went out to Mogatle 4x4 track and found out that my difflock isn't working..... did the whole weekend trail and when I got home crawled underneath to find diff breather pipe was just dangling and my diff lock pipe also just hanging........

They replaced my diff oils free of charge...... cocked that up too ( actually they didn't even change the oil )..... took it back again 3rd time and stood with them while they redid it..... wasted my time !!!.... I was not a happy camper

Sad sad sad that the care has gone in some shops.... Some on the other hand are fantastic..... luck of the draw

[David]

The short answer is if you want to do it right then do it yourself or stand right by them and tell them what to do. Most of them hates that.

When I had my TPMS installed I told the fitter that the way he wants to do it is wrong and that he should fit the valve first and only then attach the sender unit otherwise he will brake something. He listened. I am the client and I am right

On the issue of your brake lines I doubt they will ever stretch that far in real life situations as you normally only drop one wheel in a hole and there is the weight of the car. Mine does the same and I inspect them every 5k Km's when I rotate tyres. I also plan to replace them with longer ones when the time comes

[Grant]

Well explained.

Yes you can trust fitment centres but you bring up points that I have mentioned on many occasions. Often fitment centres promise more than 50 mm lift and this is not as a simple shock and spring change out. As all of us expect knowledgeable technicians to work on our vehicles, it is sometimes tough as so many different models are now being sold, and like us these techies often specialize in the most popular models.
Suspension kits are sold in a package of lift, load. The shock is then matched from a length perspective. 50 mm kits from all Aussie suppliers do not include castor correction or even the brake bias option. Once you move above this generally the kit then includes castor correction, adjustable panhard rods and brake lines. I, for example had 100 mm suspension lift fitted, and after discussing this with the supplier went ahead. Truck had to stand for three weeks as we flew in panhard rods. Even with the 3, 5 degree bushes, the castor was out of spec. Had a local fitment centre manufacture drop boxes, and this got everything sorted. Next were the diff breathers, brake pipes and gearbox spacer.
With regard to the anti sway bar angle, the links to the chassis need to be lengthened. By doing this you will get the sway bar to the correct position. The problem this then creates is how much you articulate. Because the links have been lengthened, the wheel will travel further. This then could create the problem of over articulation (wheel jams up against the inside of the wheel well) and you then are stuck. Now you have to increase the length of your bump stops to compensate. (Personal experience)
Fitment centre should have brought to your attention the brake line issue. Diff breathers should have been fitted correctly on the diff. As for the brake bias bracket, I am very sure that even the owner does not know that this is required or available.

This is the reason this forum was created by JB. Lots of experience by all, and by sharing this makes life a little easier. Also points of the good and the bad in the industry. I would suggest you go back to the installer and show then what you have explained.

[Alex Roux]

PS , those rubber pipes are brake pipes and very important and by the looks if you do a 50mm lift properly you must consider replacing them with slightly longer ones, also fixing the angle of rear control arm , look at the load sensing valve etc.

This reminds me of what happened to JG Shields's Lazarus

Having done a suspension lift, he went on holiday directly thereafter and the breakfluid started to leak onto the exhaust. Presumably due to being sgtretched after the lift. Some distance on the long road and the car started to catch fire at the bottom. That was the end of Lazarus. A very sad case of a resurrected car that died a second untimely death.

[Grant]

Alex,

Very sad and now we have lost JG. I am going tp try and get a fundie on suspension especially on 4x4 suspension to give us a talk. From lifts to body lifts to articulation.

Will arrange soon. We can then walk into shops with knowledge.

[Alex Roux]

I had my 50ml suspension lift done by one of the bigger 4x4 fitment centre names.
They were expensive and required a follow-up check a month later. But being a bigger name does not ensure quality.
I was too ignorant to check pipes afterwards.
Subsequently, the engine change I had also co-incided with the 50ml body lift - mainly to ensure sufficient space between the front diff and the sump.

I have done a lot of miles since both lifts, but based on the pictures on this thread, I will check all my pipes again tonight. Just to be 100% sure.

[AndriesS]

Alex just keep in mind the brake pipes stretch were wheels of the ground which should not happen that often, unless you clear an obstacle and become air born very much like your avatar, so to check it without a lift is tiresome as you will have to work that high lift or winch your self up a tree.