Comments 03 - 77k km - Quest for a patrolie

[Herrie]

Even without using the Patrol difflock, you will be able to do more than the LC without breaking the Patrol.

[Peter Connan]

Dieselfan a lot of Toyota's products are full-time 4wd, like all current Landies. To make this work on a tar road you need a centre diff or another type of coupling that allows some slippage, like a viscous.

Included in this are the 100/105, 200, most Prados and the Fortuner. Like the Defender and D3/4, they all use centre diffs. On any of these, lifting one wheel off the ground (on any axle) results in no or almost no drive reaching the ground (the Fortuner has an LSD in the middle, so can still get some drive going, and Traction Control also plays a role). To get "real"4wd though you need a centre diff lock, and all the above vehicles have them. But the Patrol is part-time 4wd, with no centre diff. Therefore when the Patrol is in 4wd, it is equavalent to any of these with the centre diff locked.

Therefore the difference between the system can only be noticed when the short lever (or switch) is in the normal, road-going position. And the difference is that all the full-time 4wd vehicles above will tend to understeer when grip is lost on the road, whereas the Patrol won't.

For some reason vehicle manufacturers beleive it is "safer" to build a car that understeers, rather than a car over which a reasonably skilled driver can retain a measure of directional control.

The front diff lock on the 100 is an advantage though, but I have really been trieng for three years and never managed to really get my Patrol stuck, although I do beleive there have been a few obstacles where I might have been able to get up but didn't. Anyway from my observation I beleive you save not less than R50k by buying a Patrol rather than a similar Cruiser, and for R20k you can buy a ARB locker complete with compressor, tank and installation,which helps you with tire inflation as well?

With regard to rubbers suffering from standing for long times, I would not have thought this would already be a problem on a car less than 12 years old?

[JG Shields]

Dieselfan, have a look at the WegRy of April 2011 for an explanation and pictures on all LC models.

Make the dealer an offer on that 4.8 and give it some time. He will get back to you sometime...mark my words.

I have experience of both these cars. Both cars are excellent value for money...if you buy a well looked after vehicle. You will pay more for a LC (same model, same condition) purely because of its popularity in the market. Offer vs Demand. The reason behind that has being raised on this forum many times, and it can not be attributed to a difference in vehicle quality, despite all the relative biast "drive-train" talk flying around. Putting 2 cars on a static lift and looking at the quantum of the drive-train mass does not reveal much scientific facts...sorry guys! In fact, compare that observation with the treads on this forum about Pieter du Toit, Oom Mac and my own 3.0Di grenades, and it simply hold very little water. I have a friend who are not on this forum who's 3.0Di exploded 2 weeks ago... And...if one wants to state breakdown figures, please do so as a percentage of vehicles of that kind around.

There are small differences between the vehicles which can all add to the exitement of buying and owning one of two great vehicles. But to critisize the one in an effort to promote the other leaves a bad taste in my mouth, especially in an instance where popular believe indicates to the contrary. Not one of these two vehicles deserve it.

[navigator]

Is it correct that the LC has three lockers?

[Grant]

Interesting discussion.




Last wekend I drove the most challanging trail. Moegatle. Done it and will not go back soon. Patrol was pushed. One one absticle I was behind a 76 LC. With both lockers on, the obstacle was not a problem. I drove up and had a bit of wheel spin, as when you are almost on the top, you find a horrible axel twister waiting for you. My Troll has no lockers and Slip diff is not operational. I then chanllenged the LC to try the obsticle again with out lockers on. He did not even get up half way. Later he had to engage the rear locker, and then stuggled to the top.


On some of the other absticles, I did not even try, because lockers front and rear are required. Only vehicle that tries where two 76's and one 105. Both struggled through.96 ST4.2D TDI
no hill to steep
no ditch to deepGrant
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[Peter Connan]

Navigator the Cruiser 100 as sold in SA has three lockers.

Also, some cruiser 80's had lockers all over. The current Cruiser bakkie, and the 76 and 78 wagons have lockers in both axles. In the case of the 76 and 78 they need them though because they have substantially less articulation than the Patrol, particularly when lightly loaded, because of their over-hard leaf spring rear ends.

Most cruiser 80's did not have any axle lockers, and the new cruiser 200 only has a rear locker, combined with Traction Control. Also the older cruiser bakkies and their wagon derivatives had no lockers as standard.

However as I tried to explain above, some people seem to think the third locker is some sort of "magic weapon", but this is not true. Applying the locker on the centre diff is only equivalent to putting a patrol in 4wd.

Also, the axle lockers only really have much effect when the suspension runs out of talent, or if one whole side of the vehicle is in mud but the other isn't, but in both these cases the rear axle locker in the Patrol is usually enough (although the extra locker certainly should give you more traction in both these cases).

[Kagiso II]

You see P/ter - that's why BOEZMAN is so agile. All he really needs is some lift to get over rocks [big ones] Any other day he mostly goes where Patrol's go [because of those rewlwer shackles in the back - and the rear d/lock] Dwergie says it has something to do with the driver as well ... I'm not so sure of that - If the vehicle can, the driver just clings on for dear life and "put foot" mos. Of hoe? [ten minste - dis hoe 'n sekere koerantmannetjie RDW bundu deur is ]

[Peter Connan]

Oom Mac jou make two very good points there:
1) On uneven terrain, suspension travel is very important. I have said this before. It is not only a matter of traction, but good suspension gives you lots of other advantages as well. On the RDW, there were two other vehicles in the same class as Boezman, but without revolver shackles. One of these did okay, but the other one struggled badly and eventually broke.
2) Momentum can be a viable alternative to diff locks and even traction. The disadvantage is that sooner or later you may well break something.

[dieselfan]

So I had to have a look at another, this time I actually took a test drive. the car did just come back from the panel beaters they said just a scratch on back right wheel arch?

It's an 08 with 77k for 350k. It's service history is not complete. Has 15k, 45k and 60k. Carpets have stains and boot carpet has a missing patch?! One owner. I STRUGGLED to get it into low range. After the 4th attempt it went in and out easier. Discs have barely 0.3mm ridge.

Engine felt ok, doesn't feel as quick as the diesel pathy, maybe the auto takes away that surge feeling? Over speed bumps was comfortable but smaller bumps were felt.

Looking at YT tho the petrol speedo flies...

It's a "pearl" white, looks like glitter. Has HT tyres.

[Sias]

Looks like the front end has been resprayed...