Defender vs Patrol

[Hein]

I never thought that we would have this conversation on this forum. I'm afraid that Thinus has overstated my history with Defenders. I owned 5 Defenders and my wife still drives a Disco 3 (her 2nd one). I had the priveledge of driving all of the recent (15 years) versions of the Defender, including a 90 Puma and 130 Puma. I now drive a Patrol for the following reasons:

1. All my Defenders had niggles. They spend more time in the repair shop than in my garage. My last Defender were in 6 times for an aircon problem. I sold it with 25 000km on the clock to buy the Patrol. Defender owners never admit it, but Defenders give you lots of hassles. They don't neccessarily leave you stranded but will irritate you with small issues and niggles. Diff problems, aircon problems, gearbox seals, etc. etc. etc.

2. They were uncomfortable, aspecially in the back seat for my family. Leg-room is cramped and Defenders leak water (which is still ok). Floorplates became very hot during long trips and the aircon just does not reach the back passangers (when in Savuti). The latest version is better, but not there yet.

3. I am very dissappointed with the tranction control on the Puma. It just doesn't work well. You have to loose traction before it kicks in. You have to adapt your driving technique dramatically and there were certain (Grade 5) obsticals that I just could not conquer with the traction control and centre diff lock. You need a rear difflock and that is why I had to install an ARB locker in the Defender. My Patrol breezes through these obstacles (in standard version) because of the rear diff lock.

4. Safety. Have you seen what a Defender looks like when it overturns at 120km/h? Nothing is left of it due to all the aluminium. I have seen it and it resulted in a terrible family tragedy because the roofstructure could not protect the heads of the passangers. Not great to see.

5. I have always over-loaded the roofrack of my vehicles on overland trips. This is when you pick up extra firewood when you enter the parks, etc. Sometimes I could not even get my doors open due to the weight on the roof. I did exactly the same with the Patrol recently and did not even notice the weight. The Landy roofstructure is not nearly as strong as the Patrol.

6. The Puma engine is a huge dissappointment. It lacks power when you tow. It is common complaint at Land Rover and is only rectified with a Dastek Unichip. You experience a loss of power when towing or when you drive with a head wind. It is a problem on the ECU which for some or other reason is not addressed by Land Rover. I still have a few Landy buddies and they all complain about this engine. The Td5 was in my opinion much better.

In general, I would like to ad that the Landy suspension is the best in the business (without a doubt, with the possible exception of the G-wagon). Wheel articilation is almost unrivalled in its standard form. The reason for the few suspension upgrades is because Landies don't like it if you tamper with its suspension. I made the mistake on my 110 and lifted it with 25mm. I developed a vibration on the propshafts as a result and I broke the universal on the front prop on 80 000km (almost lost my foot as a result). The prop hit a hole in the floorplat and almost took my foot off. This was due to fatique caused by the vibration. Nobody can argue however that the working ground clearance on the Landy is the best in the market. It just comes at a price in terms of road safety, etc. due to bodyroll.

The nice thing about Defenders is the range of aftermarket accessories available for it. I found it difficult to do the same with my Patrol (Where does the watertank AND TAP GO?)

I do not have anything against Land Rover. I loved every Landy I drove and still drive the Disco 3. Nobody will however convince me that the traction control on the Puma, which is based on the old ABS technology used in the Disco 2, will outclass the Patrol with its rear diff lock. I have personally tested it and the Patrol will conquer obstacles where the Defender gets stuck. Fit a rear locker in the Defender and you have a different animal however.

In general, I love my Patrol because it is comfortable, powerfull, reliable, capable and ...... in my garage.

[Tinus lotz]

I do not have anything against Land Rover. I loved every Landy I drove and still drive the Disco 3. Nobody will however convince me that the traction control on the Puma, which is based on the old ABS technology used in the Disco 2, will outclass the Patrol with its rear diff lock. I have personally tested it and the Patrol will conquer obstacles where the Defender gets stuck. Fit a rear locker in the Defender and you have a different animal however.

In general, I love my Patrol because it is comfortable, powerfull, reliable, capable and ...... in my garage.

Thanks for the excellent reply and i think that what it comes down to that in all fairness
1)the clip was done on landy test track to promote their product
2)the patrol is a better all round car than the defender highway,trails ,sand ,safety comfort ect.
3)most of us dont have 5 4x4 s and needs one to do most of the work so you either love the landy or you don't
4)that's why drive my patrol 150000 km not one time had i had a problem with anything wrong or broken!

[dieselfan]

Thanks for the cool post Hein!

Was at Marakele this last weekend, great wx during the day and below zero at night! There were 3 defenders they are gorgeous cars and I was jealous of this German couple with NC plates assumingly touring SA. On the last day, in went the brake fluid, oil and water.

So Hein, in one post hopefully...how's the D3 compared, I know how KoosBest will reply just wanted your opinion as you have both.

[Patrol4.8]

For some reason many D3's leave Kgalagadi's "sinkplaat" roads on loadbeds.

[dieselfan]

For some reason many D3's leave Kgalagadi's "sinkplaat" roads on loadbeds.

Tyres are expensive and hard to come by on D3's, this way you save tread!

[OB1]

You are all WRONG. Land Rover is 60 years old, not 50

Pity I only saw this now. I am a current 110 driver. I will replace within a few months looking at the options. The Wrangler caught my eye unexpectedly, but that is a different story.

Where I disagree and this may come as a surprise is the reliability (in my experience). I have a Tdi 1997. It belonged to my mom before me. We were stranded once with a hole in the radiator, could happen nto any vehicle. Second time a tensioner bearing gave up ghost close to Swaziland border, I had a spare, we were on our way in half an hour. It springs a few oil leaks every now and then, I am loosing some power steer fluid lately, but that is to be expected on a 14 year old vehicle. Even with high maintenance cost it is still cheaper than a monthly payment. The other day I got 11 km/l on a full tank .

It is however full of niggles. My passenger seat squeaks if my wife sits on it the windows rattle, leak in the rain and carwash, the rear door lock was replaced 3 times. One time I simply closed the rear door and the window shattered. And this is wat I believe makes me a good Land Rover owner. I was not surprised, upset, or shocked when it happened. I was lauging my arse off at the ou tannie that got a fright when the window exploded .

Things I am doing to for Defender includes a crank driven compressor, pressurising an old truck air brake tank for airing up wheels. The quick coupler sits next to my diesel cap very neatly tucked away. Having a vehicle like a 3.0 diesel patrol leaves very little room for cool stuff like this. Next on my list would have been a PTO driven hydraulic pump for a hydraulic winch. Jip, you can bolt a lever operated PTO to the transfer case of any current Defender...

I have not seen the video, but any video shot at a home base test track (I assume it is Eastnor castle) will not be objective. Most tests will not be objective, as most of a vehicles's ability is between the ears of the driver. Arguments of TC vs RDL I can not comment, I have driven wthout both for years, and for my application (overland/camp/occasional severe conditions) I have not found it lacking. Wished I had RDL a few times, but on a different line you can normally get trough.

I am considering the Patrol for its:
REliability
Saftey
Comfort
Capability

One thing I am worried about is the lack of independant service centers. Land Rover has plenty

That is my say and opinion. At least untill they come op with the new generation Defender in 2014 or whenever. I am cautiously looking forward to that...

[Peter Connan]

OB1 the Landy was introduced in 1947. By my count that makes 64 years?

A friend of mine has the following saying: In africa, there are two cars to use, the Land Rover, because parts can be found anywhere, and the Toyota, because parts are not required.

And while I do not agree, there may be some truth in the matter? But mostly I am just stirring

[dieselfan]

Eish Peter!, I've heard from a Toyota guy (my BIL) that the reason there are SO many Toyota spares are because they're needed - Still - gotta love competition. he mentions the 76 diesel engine and says it's good because it's easy to work on, I asked him isn't that the opposite to reliability? Then again I love diesels. The Toyota Hilux KZTE had one of the best sounding diesel engines.

At my shop today I counted 9 defenders in the parking lot they must have the most character out of any 4x4. They just look right.

[OB1]

Yes Pieter I agree. I know of a few horror stories concerning Landys, you never get those from the Jap brands.

Whast is really a funny paradox is every time a Toyota driver tells you "Toyota is the best they never break down" and immediately they go on saying "Their parts are everywhere in Africa"

Now how does one know which one to believe. If they never broke down, how would you know if their spares are everywhere. And if the spares are indeed everywhere, how did you find out?

[Kagiso II]

NISSAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - klaar gepraat / said & done
On ALL the trips I' have had into far-away ruff places, the L/R in the group broke down, the Toyta in the group broke down, the Colt brok aoto lock hubs - a few Mazda/ FOrd niggles [maybe 3 in all the years since 1997 when I started with Outreach into Africa]
Nissan? ONCE - the exhaust broke and we fixed it with a coke can and some wire from a nearby fence... and then Agarob came and spoiled it all with HANDGRANADE ...
On my most wanted wish list? GELANDEWAGEN, second to that? 4.8 Patrol with good fuel economy ... like maybe 6 KPL???