Donkey 4.2 vs Donkey2.5 TD5

[Will F]

Which of these donkeys will win:

Nissan 4.2 n/a diesel vs Landy Td5
1. Acceleration (TD5: Good for size and weight)
2. Maintain 120kph cruising speed up hill and dale (TD5: 90- 100kph up Sir Lowrys Pass, average 100kph on N2 around Caledon)
3. Towing a 1 ton rubber duck and trailer (TD5: slight incline will take 50kph off the speed immediately)
4. Lowest maintenance cost (TD5: R 1700 for an average service)
5. Fuel consumption (TD5: 9km/L)
6. Handling when loaded (TD5: better than when unloaded)

I want to take the plunge into the inner sanctum of the Nissan Patrol. The fuel consumption of the 4.5 and 4.8 is a little scary and I would rather sacrifice a little power for fuel consumption - but not too much power. In my mind the Landy TD5 does not have enough power on hills and into the wind for a comfortable cruise of anything over 400km.

Any gurus out there who can help

[Peter Connan]

Welcome Will

The listed power output for the TD5 is basically the same as for the 4.2 N/A diesel in the Patrol. Since the Landy is lighter, It should also be slightly faster.

I suspect the Patrol will also be heavier on fuel than the TD5, most guys report 7.5-8km/l.

However comparing the TD5 to the non-turbo 4.2 is perhaps not terribly fair, unless you add long-term running costs and reliablility to the equation.

The 4.2 is an old-fashioned motor with mechanical fuel pump and injection, and is thus not subject to the computer getting wet or any such issues, and these motors are known to last upwards of 650 000km without any major work being necessary (assuming of course decent maintenance and care) whereas the Landy "experts" I spoke to all said the TD%'s turbo generally needs to be replaced at about 250 000km's?

If you really want to compare apples with apples, you need to look at the 3l Diesel patrol, which will run away from the landy but also use slightly more fuel.

Wth regard to handling and long trips, all these big 4x4's handle better when loaded, but the Patrol has a theoretical advantage over the landy: both these cars have similar front suspensions, consisting of leading arms and a panhard rod. At the rear the landy has a triangular link and two trailing arms while the Patrol has four trailing links and a panhard rod. When a panhord rod suspension moves over a bump, the axle moves slightly sideways as well, but the rear suspension of the Landy does not do this. So the Patrol remains straight, but the Landy's nose ducks. However the one thing I can say is that most people feel the Patrol has a far more comfortable seating position than the Landy.

Regards
Peter

[Will F]

Thanks Peter! Great summary.

...you need to look at the 3l Diesel patrol, which will run away from the landy but also use slightly more fuel.

Are these units really as bad as they say they are - or are they driven badly? Coming from a Landy stable - TD5 110 & Tdi 90 - one learns to apreciate the vehicles likes and dislikes. Somethimes the lessons are hard but once learnt the diesel will serve you loyaly.
1. Diesel does not like to get too hot
2. It does not like to be driven hard for long periods at a time

I would like to think that all Patrols - even the 3.0 diesel - are good vehicles I am really falling in love with these cars WWW Why would Nissan screw up whilst on such a good run on bullet proof motors?

Thanks again,
Will

[Peter Connan]

Will I think perhaps the landie's design tends to attract drivers who are more willing to take it easy?

The earlier 3l Patrols had a problem, and even so a lot of them are still running with their original motors and no serious problems. The newer ones, used sensibly, should be fine.

I do however agree with a number of people on this forum that Nissan should install an EGT sensor and force the car into "limp mode" temporarily when excessive temperatures are detected, because I think the major problem (and I think this is probably true of virtually all the modern hi-performance TDI engines) is that you can cause serious damage without the driver even being aware that there is a problem, because the EGT can be very high without affecting the water temperature as the cooling system has lots of excess capacity for the larger engines.

I will say this though: if you park a Patrol a Cruiser and a Landy next to each other, and then crawl underneath them, you will quickly see why the Patrol's chassis/suspension/drivetrain is considered to be the most robust, and also why the Patrol is heavier than the other two, and while it certainly doesn't handle as well as my Birkin 7, I kinda like the Patrol's handling. It is very well balanced for such a large beast.

[Will F]

Will I think perhaps the landie's design tends to attract drivers who are more willing to take it easy?

hmm, you referring to the old "slipper and pipe brigade" Yes there are a few of those around...

From what year is 3.0L a 'safe' option? Ihave seen a few 2001/2002 models for sale. Is the '00 model the problem motor? First thing I would do is slap on a Black Box or EMS.

[Kagiso II]

JUST See ho fortunate and lucky you are - Right here is the Patrol of your dreams:

2002 Patrol 3.0Di GRX
233000 km
(engine redone by Steves Auto Clinic )
Economical
7-seater
Automatic
New tyres [265 / 75 / 16]
Full length roofrack
Original Nissan Radio & 6-CD Changer...

Just look - His Bumper was upgraded to the 2003. The spots are directional sensitive - it swing in the direction you turn. EGT fitted; 3.0 Diesel, 4-speed Auto WITH overdrive. Leather seats.
SAC did a superb job on that engine - it's a gem, goes like a dream and pulls like a lokomotive.

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[G-MAN]

PATROL vs landy!

[Kagiso II]

Maybe they should start with a Hard Body first ???

[JG Shields]

I want to agree with Peter. It is not completely fair to compare the Td5 with the 4.2D. It is similar to compare a backline player with Os du Randt. Yes, they are both rugby players and they play on one team, but what characteristics can be compared between the two that will help with a sensible decision?

In my view the 4.2 falls into that category of engines that stands for reliability, long life, "higher" fuel consumption, low additional maintenance (other than routine) and the tortoise syndrome that goes with the above. The Td5 falls within the small-ish turbo diesel category with their attractive power/engine capacity ratio, low-ish fuel consumption BUT.....the typical turbo-diesel issues such as EGT sensitive, questionable turbo reliability, electrical management issues, dirty fuel sensitivity, all of which do contribute to a surprisingly high additional maintenance bill.

If one can get that power "jeukerigheid" out of you butt, the 4.2D is just the answer. Because of many reasons your trip will be more relaxing:

1. The slower speed will give you more time to enjoy and appreciate the surroundings.
2. The reliability will take your mind away from the car and into your trip itself.
3. The wine at the eavening fire tastes so much better if the car does not need any attention at sunset.

[Kagiso II]

JG -- jy laat my nou dink aan die oom wat sleepgoed vir sy negosiewa moes kry - en toe kon hy nie besluit of hy osse, muile of perde moes kry nie ... .heij wag, dis 'n lang storie - sal hom by die GTG by LA sports se aandvuurtjie vertel...