TB42 EFI Turbo VS TD42 Silvertop Turbo Discussion

[symmetry4wd]

So...
As the title states,

This would be for my 96 GQ Y60 LWB, Manual.

Here is my thread discussing going EFI on my TB42 Carby engine: viewtopic.php?t=9967
I was planning to transfer all the EFI components across to my "healthy" TB42 Carby engine, in the car, from my donor TB42 EFI engine I bought.

Now that my Carby engine needs to come out for Welsh plug replacements, as well as having a little extra cash on hand to spend on the Patrol, I am wondering if I skip the EFI conversion, and Turbo endeavour, and go straight for the TD42...

Ultimately, my reason for wanting the TD42 over the TB would be that I would drive the car more, with the better economy/consumption it would provide, feel better doing longer trips with the car, and in general get more use and enjoyment out of it. I love the GQ/Y60, and prefer it over the other generation Patrols, the only downside to me is the TB42 consumption. I could live with the TB42, but if I have the opportunity to replace it, should I take it? Now thats not to say money isn't a consideration and limiting factor, it is, but I believe in doing things, once, and properly.

A few more positives is the crawl ability of the TD42 suiting my off-road driving style. Consumption as mentioned. No ECU vs the TB42 EFI/simpler less electronics. Torque. Overlanding remote traveling ability. Being different compared to all the petrol Patrols.

TB42 pros,
Higher engine speed/redline so better wheel speed for certain off-road applications. Road driving power. Not needing to baby and monitor EGT's. Car is already a TB42, so no custom wiring, parts, fabrication etc

With the above in mind,
The TD42 I can get my hands on is quite high mileage, around 500k kms, has a new head, previous owner before the last cracked and overheated the last head. I drove the GU that this engine came from and it pulled hard and felt healthy, and visually checked out.
Can get it for around R30K, complete engine with clutch, and ancillary's. i.e long block
With the age of the engine, even though it feels good when driving, would a possible bottom end rebuild be needed at this mileage? Who knows, it could have been rebuilt at some stage in the past anyway...
Would the timing gears need replacement?
I would do a new water pump, welsh plugs (lol), belts, gaskets, rebuilt the fuel pump etc before putting it in my car.
The other thing is the owner isn't sure if the GU was an original GU TD42T or Silvertop NA converted to turbo. In the real world, not just on paper, are the silvertops just as good at moderate boost as the factory TD42T's, and could someone remind me of the differences between the 2?

Are there any threads on this forum detailing a TB42 carb y60 to TD42 conversion? As far as engine conversions go, is this a relatively "easy" one?
Because of space and time, though I would like to tackle the conversion myself, I would get a workshop to do the conversion. Any recommendations for who would be up to this in cape town?

So should I continue on the TB42 EFI turbo endeavour, or scrap it and go TD42t?

any advice is much appreciated.

[Peter Connan]

Explanation of Silvertop differences.
https://www.patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.php?t=7409
Note that it is not possible to identify this engine from the outside.

My TD42 installation
https://www.patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.php?t=8306

I think the TD42 gives a more relaxed freeway drive, and some improvement in consumption. How much varies quite a lot. My calculation at the time I did it predicted a 3-year turnaround (but my TB was guzzling more gas than anybody else's), but it has not worked out that way, firstly because my weekly commute has been reduced a lot and secondly because I worked the cost of diesel at then-current cost of bio-diesel, but that did not last. I expect 5 years is a more reasonable figure.
While it requires a different driving style off road, I don't think it is "better" than a TB42. I don't know about a TB42 turbo, as I have never driven one. However I am still convinced that a TB42 carby has more torque at crawling speeds than a TD42.

[jakeslouw]

I'd take the TD42.

Just some info: pistons, conrods, etc are the same as the TD27.

The TD42 is basically a 6-cyl version of the TD27.

Some sums:

R30k for the TD42
Selling one/both of the TB42s will probably cover most of that cost.
Thereafter you're spending between 30-50% less on fuel.

So then apart from these items : "new water pump, welsh plugs (lol), belts, gaskets, rebuilt the fuel pump etc before putting it in my car." of which most need to be done on the TB42 ANYWAY, you are a net zero balance. In fact, I'd just have the fuel pump delivery checked by somebody like Bosch Diesel (the pump is a Jap copy of the Bosch V-series mechanical pump.......) before I do a full rebuild. It might just need seals and O-rings.

As for EGT: get a Madman EMS. Those things have saved MANY vehicles. It can precisely monitor water temps, head temps, exhaust gas temps, oil temps, oil pressure etc and even alert you on low coolant.

https://shopglobal.madmandevelopments.c ... atrol-4-2d

Developer was Brian Cotton. They can advise on a local installer.

So you're saving from day 1.
And let me tell you: a TD42T will get a MUCH better resale price one day..........

[symmetry4wd]

Explanation of Silvertop differences.
https://www.patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.php?t=7409
Note that it is not possible to identify this engine from the outside.

My TD42 installation
https://www.patrol4x4.co.za/viewtopic.php?t=8306

I think the TD42 gives a more relaxed freeway drive, and some improvement in consumption. How much varies quite a lot. My calculation at the time I did it predicted a 3-year turnaround (but my TB was guzzling more gas than anybody else's), but it has not worked out that way, firstly because my weekly commute has been reduced a lot and secondly because I worked the cost of diesel at then-current cost of bio-diesel, but that did not last. I expect 5 years is a more reasonable figure.
While it requires a different driving style off road, I don't think it is "better" than a TB42. I don't know about a TB42 turbo, as I have never driven one. However I am still convinced that a TB42 carby has more torque at crawling speeds than a TD42.

Thanks for the links and info @Peter Connan, much appreciated.
Your TD42 installation and cooling improvement thread was very insightful.
The Silvertop vs Blacktop thread was a little confusing with so many variables and unknowns...

I think built a fiddled with to the same level as your setup, that a TB42 Turbo could be "comparable" to a TD42T setup, just not in fuel economy, but that's where I lean towards the TD...
I feel like the TB42 acts/behaves a lot like a diesel in many ways

Do the timing/cam gears for the TD42 ever need attention/replacing?
Just concerned because of the mileage on the TD42 I'm looking at...

At that mileage would it be recommended to do bearings, piston rings, new head gasket, head studs given the mileage, or if its running fine, just leave it at that? (provided the pistons, and rods are still in good condition.

@jakeslouw

I was also thinking along the same lines...
breaking somewhat even going with the TD42.
The one thing is that I would want to do some work and preventative maintenance on the TD before installing it, adding to the cost.
Would also need exhaust work, intercooler work. Wiring, Glow Plug Circuit, get the Tacho working, Madman, Fuel pump and I'm sure the list goes on...

But the more I'm looking at the TD, the more I'm interested, the simplicity of the amount of electronics and the engine itself is a big plus.

Some pics of the TD42 I'm looking at when its head was replaced:

[jakeslouw]

Looking at the cross-hatching on those bores, that engine is barely run in.

As for timing chain and gears: I've never heard of them failing. I ran my TD27 to 400,000kms and it died due to a mistake rather than any mechanical failure.

Those Nissan IDI engines are VERY robust as long as you don't go high EGT.

The only failures are the combustion chambers. Since the head has been done on this one, I'd say it would do 500,000kms easily.

OH YES: not more than 10,000kms between oil changes, and use Delo Gold or a similar oil with high amounts of zinc.

[symmetry4wd]

Looking at the cross-hatching on those bores, that engine is barely run in.

As for timing chain and gears: I've never heard of them failing. I ran my TD27 to 400,000kms and it died due to a mistake rather than any mechanical failure.

Those Nissan IDI engines are VERY robust as long as you don't go high EGT.

The only failures are the combustion chambers. Since the head has been done on this one, I'd say it would do 500,000kms easily.

OH YES: not more than 10,000kms between oil changes, and use Delo Gold or a similar oil with high amounts of zinc.

Thanks for the info.

I use Delo on my TB42 and previous Pajero 2.8TD.
Was going to install a Madman setup on my Pajero as well before I sold it for the Patrol

[Peter Connan]

Not sure if I mentioned it in my thread.
The engine I have was a Silvertop (correct gudgeon pin diameter and oil squirters mounted in the block, and heavy pistons). It came out of a Lesotho rust-bucket and had had a cracked head for a long time (judging by what we found when we opened it). It had over 400k km on it (i drove the donor car before the engine was removed).

The crank did not need to be cut.
The pistons did not need replacement.
The sleeves were replaced because they had rusted due to water standing in the engine, due to the cracked head. The honing marks were still visible in the sleeves that had not had water in them.
The head obviously did need replacement.
The rings looked fine but I replaced them. Same with the bearings.
I can't remember about the water pump but I don't think it was replaced. The oil pump was not replaced, nor were any of the drive gears.

So the base engine is extremely durable as long as one takes care of the cooling system.
What I did do was to have it balanced, and I did some rudimentary gas flowing in the head (mostly matching the head to the manifolds and polishing, not removing a lot of material).
I can't remember whether anything was done to the injectors or the fuel pump.

Despite the above, the conversion still cost me over R100k. A large chunk of that was the head, and of course I had to buy turbo and pipework and so on as the donor was NA.
Costs can mount pretty quickly, don't under-budget.

Speak to Michael and to Frans Fourie.

A last mote: whether you put in a TD42 or turbo the existing engine, put in the Madman anyway.

[symmetry4wd]

Not sure if I mentioned it in my thread.
The engine I have was a Silvertop (correct gudgeon pin diameter and oil squirters mounted in the block, and heavy pistons). It came out of a Lesotho rust-bucket and had had a cracked head for a long time (judging by what we found when we opened it). It had over 400k km on it (i drove the donor car before the engine was removed).

The crank did not need to be cut.
The pistons did not need replacement.
The sleeves were replaced because they had rusted due to water standing in the engine, due to the cracked head. The honing marks were still visible in the sleeves that had not had water in them.
The head obviously did need replacement.
The rings looked fine but I replaced them. Same with the bearings.
I can't remember about the water pump but I don't think it was replaced. The oil pump was not replaced, nor were any of the drive gears.

So the base engine is extremely durable as long as one takes care of the cooling system.
What I did do was to have it balanced, and I did some rudimentary gas flowing in the head (mostly matching the head to the manifolds and polishing, not removing a lot of material).
I can't remember whether anything was done to the injectors or the fuel pump.

Despite the above, the conversion still cost me over R100k. A large chunk of that was the head, and of course I had to buy turbo and pipework and so on as the donor was NA.
Costs can mount pretty quickly, don't under-budget.

Speak to Michael and to Frans Fourie.

A last mote: whether you put in a TD42 or turbo the existing engine, put in the Madman anyway.

Thanks for the info Peter, always appreciate it!
You had mentioned to me before that yours is the Silvertop.
Luckily I also got to drive this engine before it was removed from the car (it was in a GU with 35's, so can only imagine what it would feel like in my GQ, though 35's are on the cards...). Also luckily this has a turbo and manifold already, looks like a factory manifold, but will check the turbo to see if it's still fine.
Would definitely like it to come in under R100k, but would like to do everything properly, so we will see.

I wonder what the oil pump life spans are on these engines...

If you don't mind me asking, what is a rough figure to get the fuel pump built to 11mm?
Are @Michael and to @Frans Fourie on the forum?

[Peter Connan]

Yes they are, although nowadays it seems that nobody is on regularly anymore.

Frans has a shop in Belleville (I think), and the last number I have for him is zero7834zero925zero9.

Michael is based in Centurion but does more of these conversions than anybody else. Zero82 567 7one56.

[SJC]

Frans: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=102
Michael: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3130