Nissan Patrol 4x4 (Africa)

Flip. Is it my imagination or have prices gone up significantly in the last year-and-a-half or so? I paid R525k for mine (4.8 GRX) out the box in mid 2013 (found it on Autotrader and negotiated it down a fair bit but still). I see that on Autotrader they're now around R800k..... That's like a 50% increase over eighteen months or so. And the latest Rand devaluation has certainly not been factored in yet. Take account of that and by mid-year or so you'll be looking at R1m +.

Ja those figures cant be right. The 3.0D goes for around 605K and the 4.8 around 695K. And im sure youlle be able to negotiate

Don't underestimate the impact of the exchange rate after some really inteligent speeches and appointments in high places.

Clem wrote:Flip. Is it my imagination or have prices gone up significantly in the last year-and-a-half or so? I paid R525k for mine (4.8 GRX) out the box in mid 2013 (found it on Autotrader and negotiated it down a fair bit but still). I see that on Autotrader they're now around R800k..... That's like a 50% increase over eighteen months or so. And the latest Rand devaluation has certainly not been factored in yet. Take account of that and by mid-year or so you'll be looking at R1m +.

My recollection that two years ago the official listed price of the new GRX was just above 700k.
However due to very low sales, dealers have been prepared to give significant discounts on them.
Yours at 525 was definitely one of them.

The "new" 3d GL is given some air time in the latest SA4x4.
It is a GL in name, but with a proper sound system, rather than the old tape deck, climate control, leather seats etc.
Official trading price is 605k.

I do not know for how long this model wil last, but I have heard die-hard cruiser fans singing its praises, since in the cruiser range, you either have to go for the hard and plain 70 series, of for an IFS. Even the new cruiser 200GX is IFS. Tactically it is the right move for Nissan, but it still lacks the right engine for an overlander, which emission rules will not allow them to have.

Alex Roux wrote:

Clem wrote:Flip. Is it my imagination or have prices gone up significantly in the last year-and-a-half or so? I paid R525k for mine (4.8 GRX) out the box in mid 2013 (found it on Autotrader and negotiated it down a fair bit but still). I see that on Autotrader they're now around R800k..... That's like a 50% increase over eighteen months or so. And the latest Rand devaluation has certainly not been factored in yet. Take account of that and by mid-year or so you'll be looking at R1m +.

My recollection that two years ago the official listed price of the new GRX was just above 700k.
However due to very low sales, dealers have been prepared to give significant discounts on them.
Yours at 525 was definitely one of them.

The "new" 3d GL is given some air time in the latest SA4x4.
It is a GL in name, but with a proper sound system, rather than the old tape deck, climate control, leather seats etc.
Official trading price is 605k.

I do not know for how long this model wil last, but I have heard die-hard cruiser fans singing its praises, since in the cruiser range, you either have to go for the hard and plain 70 series, of for an IFS. Even the new cruiser 200GX is IFS. Tactically it is the right move for Nissan, but it still lacks the right engine for an overlander, which emission rules will not allow them to have.

Alex, why would you say that it still lacks the right engine for overlanding?
In my opinion the 3.0crd is probably one of the best out there for overlanding

Michael wrote:

Alex Roux wrote:...Tactically it is the right move for Nissan, but it still lacks the right engine for an overlander, which emission rules will not allow them to have.

Alex, why would you say that it still lacks the right engine for overlanding?
In my opinion the 3.0crd is probably one of the best out there for overlanding

Michael

It should read that it lacks the "ideal" engine, rather than "right" engine.
What I had in mind when I wrote this was the 4.2 diesel, and the fact that this engine is not marketed by Nissan in the Patrol anymore, due to emission rules.
The ideal overland engine in my view should not rely on any electronics, otherwise ideally as little as possible any stuff that cannot be fixed with the right tools.

I am pretty happy in terms of my own engine's reliability. And very simple and easy to maintain. It may not be everyone's favourite, but it is also very difficult to break it.
But if the circuit board in my ECU fails, there is nothing I can do, except being towed, and replacing it eventually (unless I drive with a spare).
The same applies to the 3.0crd.

Question:
Would you get an EGT installed if you had a 3.CRD?
Anything else you would change/add, before a long trip? This is of course in terms of engine management and reliability.

Ok Alex I get what you are saying

The thing is that there are really not that many engines that run without an ECU and I dont think it has a very big draw back and has proven over the years that this is not what makes you sit in the middle of nowhere and cant drive.

I will fit an EGT monitor to any diesel I own, this is one of the best tools to measure whats going on. Like Tinus sais: om te meet is om te weet
I think Josh has the perfect setup for a 3.0crd and I will drive with his Patrol anywhere without worries

Alex, you brake my heart. It really isnt healthy to carry so much hate with you.............

With your way of thinking I recon the only 4x4 for you is a 4.2 normal aspirated LC 70. Thats the only new car on the market with no heavy ECU setup.

Any other option fails on your list because it has an ECU.

No pun intendit but I have been around more overheated and seezed 4.2D Patrol engines these last few weeks then all the other engines i have been exposed to my whole life. Ok maybe with the exeption of the old 3l V6 ford engines. And dont get me wrong. I love the 4.2. It comes back to how you take care of you car. Treat it right and it wil treat you right

I have heard of many failures in the feild. But non was because of an ECU.

Comming back to the ZD30. I have had a boost pipe on the intercooler come off in namibia. Mil came on. No limp mode. Finished the trip without problems. On the river trip I had the MIL come on due to overboost. No limp mode. Matter of fact if you imbrace the technology in an ECU. It makes your live as an owner so much easier. Because should you brake down. Fault finding can be done in less than half the time. If you have a scan tool. Instead of having to poke around wondering wats wrong with this no nonsense. None electrical engine.

Realy, you are not making any sense. Hence I can only explain it from your hatred for a ZD30.

JoshJ wrote:Alex, you brake my heart. It really isnt healthy to carry so much hate with you.............

With your way of thinking I recon the only 4x4 for you is a 4.2 normal aspirated LC 70. Thats the only new car on the market with no heavy ECU setup.

Any other option fails on your list because it has an ECU.

No pun intended but I have been around more overheated and seized 4.2D Patrol engines these last few weeks then all the other engines i have been exposed to my whole life. Ok maybe with the exception of the old 3l V6 ford engines. And don't get me wrong. I love the 4.2. It comes back to how you take care of you car. Treat it right and it wil treat you right

I have heard of many failures in the feild. But non was because of an ECU.

Coming back to the ZD30. I have had a boost pipe on the inter-cooler come off in Namibia. Mil came on. No limp mode. Finished the trip without problems. On the river trip I had the MIL come on due to over-boost. No limp mode. Matter of fact if you embrace the technology in an ECU. It makes your live as an owner so much easier. Because should you brake down. Fault finding can be done in less than half the time. If you have a scan tool. Instead of having to poke around wondering wats wrong with this no nonsense. None electrical engine.

Really, you are not making any sense. Hence I can only explain it from your hatred for a ZD30.

Josh, In general, I think when it comes to ECU or no ECU, there are others sitting on both sides of the fence. Not just me. So I do not think it is an all emotive argument driven by hatred , and not one that I would feel alone in defending. But yes, the ECU is not the most common failure in modern engines, and yes, as you know, I have one too.

As far as hatred is concerned, that it is not, it is not even emotive.
But you have not experienced what it is like to drive on the highway, starting to feel your vehicle shivering/shaking, then only to witness a great cloud of white smoke behind you?
It is not pleasant sitting on a flat bed with car and trailer and your holiday ruined.
I never drove in a way that should justify this. My only crime was I assumed that I can trust Nissan to have thought of everything. Why should it be necessary to add after market stuff to it, just to make the engine last? I was lucky. We had only departed on our holiday 10 minutes before.
I still do not know of anyone who had a grenade, fixed it, and still drive the car today. I know of some that had been fixed and then got traded. Some sing their praises, but don't drive it anymore themselves. I don't get that. Not one that I know of still drive the same car they had a grenade with.
Dave Faddel still has his Patrol in his garage, but without a working engine.
I really do not have to make this argument. Those engines were bad. Period.
Call that hatred if you like. I call it common sense and being honest with myself.

Now when it comes to people's criticism of the Lexus conversion, there I'm afraid lies a lot of emotion (on the other side of the fence, that is).
As far as my own engine is concerned, I have not had a hitch. Not one. I only need to watch the fuel gauge. Even Graham said after my last recent service, he is starting to get confidence in my conversion. It took 70,000 trouble free kms though. It was done right the first time. Sure the torque low down is not the best, but there is also not one single obstacle that I failed to do, and others succeeded, on account of allegedly not having the ideal engine. So that argument is not strong either.
In addition, it is certainly more versatile than any diesel engine I know, and (slightly) more economical than most straight six petrol engines I know of in Patrols. Again, as far as I am concerned, this should just be common sense.

Michael wrote: I will fit an EGT monitor to any diesel I own, this is one of the best tools to measure whats going on. Like Tinus sais: om te meet is om te weet
I think Josh has the perfect setup for a 3.0crd and I will drive with his Patrol anywhere without worries

So why don't manufaturers fit the EGTs? Do they not agree with you that it is necessary?

Which would you rather take on a long overland trip, the 3.0CRD or the 4.2NA (neither with any mods, no EGT either)?
Would you sway towards the 30.0CRD only because it is more pleasent to drive in the long haul, or becaue you think it is more reliable?

I do not want this to divert into the Diesel vs Petrol debate, but if you drive Josh's car, you will still need to take extra precautions to check the quality of the diesel that you get at the pump (not the ppm, but the potential water content.
Also, in my reading I have discovered that Petrol is generally still always available where diesel is available (albeit at lower octane).
However it did happen at least once to the Voetspore team in Ethiopea where they stopped at a fuel station that only had Petrol. So their Amaroks had to march on.