Defender vs Patrol

[dieselfan]

Kevin, I think a lot of us (and I certainly include myself in this) are just gadget freaks.

Or you just lazy and don't like picking out "lines".

[Grant]

Interesting discussion.




Last wekend I drove the most challanging trail. Moegatle. Done it and will not go back soon. Patrol was pushed. One one absticle I was behind a 76 LC. With both lockers on, the obstacle was not a problem. I drove up and had a bit of wheel spin, as when you are almost on the top, you find a horrible axel twister waiting for you. My Troll has no lockers and Slip diff is not operational. I then chanllenged the LC to try the obsticle again with out lockers on. He did not even get up half way. Later he had to engage the rear locker, and then stuggled to the top.


On some of the other absticles, I did not even try, because lockers front and rear are required. Only vehicle that tries where two 76's and one 105. Both struggled through.

[Grant]

Defender vs Patrol at Hennops

[Peter Connan]

Nice pics Grant

The only vehicle I have seen to lift a wheel that high on that obstacle is my Dad's Hilux. This is fitted with air helper springs at the rear, and in the Hilux if you fit air helpers you sacrifice the bump-stops, which means you have to keep some pressure in the airbags, which reduces the Hilux's already poor articulation even further.

Dieselfan I don't know if you know Hennops, my Patrol will traverse this obstacle (the first axle twister as you head up the hill after entering) in 2nd gear low range at an idle, without the diff lock engaged and with just a hint of slippage. If I try it in 1st Low, however, I need diff-lock or revs.

The scariest vehicle I have seen on axle twisters like this is the Defender 90, and while I always thought that was exactly what a 4x4 should look like (particularly with the top off and the windscreen folded flat) I would not again consider owning one after having seen one just about roll over while traversing a small gully on almost level ground. On the same obstacle my Patrol lifted one wheel about 100mm.

[Mrowka]

Kevin, I think a lot of us (and I certainly include myself in this) are just gadget freaks.

However there is no denying that my car is now more capable off-road than when I bought it.

A lot of us are however involved in driving trails, and many of our local trails in this area are fairly rough and rocky, and doing them in a standard Patrol will result in you either having to bypass some obstacles, or in body damage.

Oh, I have no doubt that my Patrol would become a lot more capable if I did modify it.

Just I am cheap, and better at avoiding obstacles than I am at driving them. Still, I need to break out my wallet and get some body armor, like, now.

I think it was you that sent me the plans, thanks once more.

[Peter Connan]

I have been looking at that picture Grant posted of the defender, and I think I have just sussed it:

On the live-axle coil-sprung Landies (Defender, disco 1 and 2, and older Range rovers), the axle is located transversely (side to side) by a triangular member connected to the top of the axle casing by a balljoint. Therefore the roll centre of the rear axle is at this ball joint. This results in a vertical seperation between the torque centre and the roll centre. The effect of this is that when torque is applied through the rear axle, it tries to overturn the vehicle to the right when going forward or to the left when in reverse.

The steeper the hill, therefore the more torque needed, therefore the worse the effect.

On the Patrol, the axle is located by a panhard rod connected on the axle centreline vertically.

[dieselfan]

Peter I've done hennops many times, my terrano used to idle through with correct timing of the pedal without drama. the pathfinder goes through just maintaining 1000 rpm. the only real challenge there is the axle twister in the playground area, going up it. the terrano had good rear articulation and lsd. the pic of the defender is most freaky I've never seen any car do that there!

[Kagiso II]

Disco3 & Hard Body @ De Wildt:

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[Kagiso II]

HB vs Disco - saga continued:

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Now you may want to argue that the "line" taken was different - look again - the wheels are almost in the same tracks - That is a R100 000 vehicle and a R500 000 vehicle. (i can replace many engines for that difference ? - but do pray that the one I have lasts and lasts and lasts...]
AND Boezman's front suspension is stock standard - and the Rewolwer shackles in the rear was R900.oo -
And what's more - Agarob can doe better the Boezman

[Gerrit Loubser]

That does not look right. A standard Defender flexes at least as well as a standard coil sprung Patrol. What suspension does that Defender have? Was he going through there at speed?