Defender vs Patrol

[Pieter du Toit]

Continue.........

So a meeting was scheduled with the DP, Workshop manager, used car manager and of cours my BIL. A very very long story short - LR eventually agreed to replace the gearbox in conjunction with Motorite, give my BIL a loan vehicle and fit the rest of the bill themselves. They would require to have the vehicle for a week. So gese so gemaak en die voertuig is die daarop volgende week ingeboek.

One week later, Fri (27/05) my bil was called to fetch his D3. The Landy has been 100% fixed, now had an approved Land Rover reconditioned gearbox in it, was tested and found to be in tip top condition. Of he goes, fetch his car and drive it home - driving very nicely and feeling like a new car +- 20km from the dealer. Being Friday afternoon he has all intention of testing the vehicle himself on the saturday and parks it in the garage.

Sat morning my sister wants to go to the local Spar - and of course wants to feel what the LR now drives like. So out she pulls the D3 from the garage - her hubby watching her every move. Low and behold - as the D3 leaves the garage my bil is met with this sight for sore eyes:



So of course it being Saturday morning there is no one at LR - except the poor sales people. So the poor salesman on duty obviously got more than a mouthful from him - but by now everybody at the dealership knew him. At least they immediately brought him another loan vehicle. So come Monday morning (30/05) they fetched the Landy on a lowbed from his house - to be returned to LR after being 100% fixed and tested.

Then they discovered a "pinched" o-ring oil seal somewhere on the engine or sump - and replaced that.

Still leaking oil.

Then they replaced the sump cover on the landrover approved reconditioned gearbox after discovering a "hairline crack" in it.

Still it is leaking oil.

Well apparently, after the replacement of another 2 gearbox sump covers all with "hairline cracks" in them - the D3 is now supposedly fixed. He got his car back on Thursday - but he won't be keeping it. He has lot complete faith in this vehicle - BUT NOT IN THE BRAND!!! HE IS BUYING ANOTHER D3 - jut a newer model with a lot less km's on it and at least the remainder of the factory warranty and maintenance plan in place.

If this is not loyalty and believing in your brand of vehicle then I don't know what is.......

If it was me would I consider buying another D3..........PROBABLY NOT!!!

Regards

[Abri Hoffman]

Pieter, the sad thing is I can replace Land Rover in this letter with Nissan. A friend bought a 2008 4.8 with 12 000km on during December 2008. Everything was great for the first six months, upon returning from a 3 week holiday to Kaokoland the problems started. Took a year to fix and the problem was a faulty 12v cable to the ECU.
What is more capable depends on what can be done to it, not as it leave the factory.
What is more reliable depends on the ability of the grease monkeys to actually get some grease on their hands and not just replacing because they "think" it is the problem.
I can also replace Land Rover with BMW in 2002 I bought a new 530D with similar problems until they realised it at the previous service they reloaded the software and instead of the software for the 530D, they loaded the software for the 320D.
In 2006 I had an overheating problem with a 1998 Land Cruiser Diesel. After about 3 months between the dealers and auto electricians, my brother and I spend 2 hours to fix. The heat gauge was earthed on the injector rail after the head gasket has been replaced by the dealer.

Capability is in the eye of the beholder. Same friend who had all the problems with the Patrol, had two Defenders both bought new and sold with high mileage. No major problems other than the odd broken gearbox, torn roof due to overloading of roofrack etc. Spoke to him last night and he said never a Defender again - it is just too uncomfortable, even the Patrol is uncomfortable at times. With a 50mm lift on the Patrol he has not encountered any place he could go with the Defender that he cannot with the Patrol whilst the opposite is not true. The one big difference in my eyes is the stability at a side slope. The extra width of the Patrol make it more stable where as the extra hight on the Defender is a challenge to say the least.

I must admit though that trips when he had the Defender and I the Land Cruiser was nice because of the continued banter between the brands.

Although I love my Patrol and hate the seating position of a Defender, every time I see a 90 I just want to buy it. It is just the sexiest 4x4 on the road.

[Abri Hoffman]

Ouch, does this make the D3 a bad car however?
Must say I am with Peter here, my GQ is the car I will probably drive for another 10 years. Peace of mind. It is slow, heavy on fuel, ugly to most but I know I can get in it and drive through Africa if I want to.
I service it myself however and will not allow Nissan SA close to it. The guys who build it knew what they were doing. The monkeys in SA only know how to replace parts and is terrible at that too.

If you talk to the Land Cruiser guys in the Cape, those in the know service their cars at JB Auto's and those that are still under warrentee is send to JB for a post service inspection. JB is more expensive than Toyota, but at least he know the vehicle inside-out and is not guessing.

10 years ago a friend said that if you specialised in vehicle electronics and is able to accurately diagnose problems you will have more work than you can take on and charge whatever you want. People back then though he lost his marbles. If only people listened to him!!

[dieselfan]

Abri to be fair, I have more comments on Land Rover from both my fathers...one my bio and the other my fil. Both have D3's. One new one secondhand, the FIL had 3 Freelanders in one year. If I look at the hassles Boksburg LR give my dad! Heck it's going for a service tomorrow.

Eg. He serviced it every 24k km at LR, on the 60k they voided his warranty because he didn't service it every 12k km! Yet they had no hassles with the previous ones?! He had to pay a 10k FINE AFTER they serviced it. ie held it ransom. I emailed 4 LR dealerships to find out how much a 120k service was on a D3 NOT ONE gave me an proper figure it ranged from R7-R15k. Two emails to LRSA didn't help either. 3 calls to LRSA just put me into contact with one of the dealerships I'd already contacted, this was his reply "It depends on whether we use imported parts or local stock on your car at that point in time".

LR dealerships are in my experience with many brands the dumbest and biggest liars of the lot. Toyota and BMW follow with their arrogance / stupidity. The Nissan dealerships I've dealt with (had 6 nissans) have more recently become quite good, honest, expensive but honest.

The D3 is without doubt probably the most capable, versatile well designed 4x4 on the road. We avg 13l/100km with an Explorer at +-1650kg and travelling at 130km/h GPS from ZIM. Without load at 150km/h GPS around 12l/100km, at 120 GPS around 8l/100km (12.5km/l) but I'm really nervous about it's electronics. Not on ONE trip have we not had hassles with it. Always easy to fix, reset computer but still not comforting. It's the reason a Patrol and LC are so high on my list, despite their comparably horrendous fuel consumption.

This coming weekend I'm taking both pa's out to teach them how to 4x4, yes their issues with their cars happened in softroader country...

Now where's is a good sand pit close to Gauteng?

[ChristoSlang]

Pieter, that BIL of yours reckons that us Patrol blokes are completely bonkers. He thinks that there isn't a single standard Patrol left in all of SA, and should we manage to locate one we'll fit 33" tyres, a suspension lift, bull-bar, etc. to it straight away!

Maybe I should stop parking Chuck Norris next to his Landy at the office

[Kagiso II]

- BUT - I have yet to find a Tyotta in standard form where LOBO [in standard form _{can go - or otherway round - They can go where Lobo cant go .. Or Agarob ftm. (The 76 may be the exeption with diflock front rear & centre ... - But Hi Lux standard form?? never.}

[Herrie]

The reason why there are so many aftermarket spares for Toyota and Land Rover is because they are useless in standard form.

[Pieter du Toit]

Pieter, that BIL of yours reckons that us Patrol blokes are completely bonkers. He thinks that there isn't a single standard Patrol left in all of SA, and should we manage to locate one we'll fit 33" tyres, a suspension lift, bull-bar, etc. to it straight away!

Maybe I should stop parking Chuck Norris next to his Landy at the office

Christo,

Do I dedect perhaps a sense of jealously wth his remark?? I think your Patrol is starting to give him a "minority complex" about his Landy - don't tell him I said so - and yes perhaps you should consider parking elsewhere - I would also go into "panic mode" if I everyday I had one of the BEST AND MOST VERSATILE 4X4's parked next to me!!! Man it must make them jealous and drive them crazy that they can't do with their vehicles what we can do with ours!!!! Tell him I know of a number of good quality Patrol's on sale - it's time he shoves that Landy up the dp's bud and get a REAL 4X4!!!

And he is such a huge handyman - there is nothing he can't do when he puts his mind to it (I am sure you have seen his off road trailer he built from scratch himself) - he will be able to do so much things himself to a Patrol. If he could only see the light at the end of the tunnel!!

Jokes aside - my BIL is a great guy and knows his stuff - I love him to bits. By posting his letter I was merely trying to say all brands have their "dud" vehicles coming from the manyfacturers - and he unfortunately bought one of those!! And then the "support" one gets from the dealer / manufacturer is absolutely shocking.

Regards to Anthony please. Tell him is is welcome to join our forum as well - even though he drives a Landy - perhaps the forum will grow so much on him that he will change to a PATROL!!!!

Cheers

[Mrowka]

I don't live in SA, but my Patrol goes offroading in pretty much the state it was in when it left the factory in 1994.

Stock height, stock bars, h/t tires and all.

[Peter Connan]

Kevin, I think a lot of us (and I certainly include myself in this) are just gadget freaks.

However there is no denying that my car is now more capable off-road than when I bought it.

A lot of us are however involved in driving trails, and many of our local trails in this area are fairly rough and rocky, and doing them in a standard Patrol will result in you either having to bypass some obstacles, or in body damage.