Re: Defender vs Patrol
Posted: 26 May 2011 13:24
I never thought that we would have this conversation on this forum. I'm afraid that Thinus has overstated my history with Defenders. I owned 5 Defenders and my wife still drives a Disco 3 (her 2nd one). I had the priveledge of driving all of the recent (15 years) versions of the Defender, including a 90 Puma and 130 Puma. I now drive a Patrol for the following reasons:
1. All my Defenders had niggles. They spend more time in the repair shop than in my garage. My last Defender were in 6 times for an aircon problem. I sold it with 25 000km on the clock to buy the Patrol. Defender owners never admit it, but Defenders give you lots of hassles. They don't neccessarily leave you stranded but will irritate you with small issues and niggles. Diff problems, aircon problems, gearbox seals, etc. etc. etc.
2. They were uncomfortable, aspecially in the back seat for my family. Leg-room is cramped and Defenders leak water (which is still ok). Floorplates became very hot during long trips and the aircon just does not reach the back passangers (when in Savuti). The latest version is better, but not there yet.
3. I am very dissappointed with the tranction control on the Puma. It just doesn't work well. You have to loose traction before it kicks in. You have to adapt your driving technique dramatically and there were certain (Grade 5) obsticals that I just could not conquer with the traction control and centre diff lock. You need a rear difflock and that is why I had to install an ARB locker in the Defender. My Patrol breezes through these obstacles (in standard version) because of the rear diff lock.
4. Safety. Have you seen what a Defender looks like when it overturns at 120km/h? Nothing is left of it due to all the aluminium. I have seen it and it resulted in a terrible family tragedy because the roofstructure could not protect the heads of the passangers. Not great to see.
5. I have always over-loaded the roofrack of my vehicles on overland trips. This is when you pick up extra firewood when you enter the parks, etc. Sometimes I could not even get my doors open due to the weight on the roof. I did exactly the same with the Patrol recently and did not even notice the weight. The Landy roofstructure is not nearly as strong as the Patrol.
6. The Puma engine is a huge dissappointment. It lacks power when you tow. It is common complaint at Land Rover and is only rectified with a Dastek Unichip. You experience a loss of power when towing or when you drive with a head wind. It is a problem on the ECU which for some or other reason is not addressed by Land Rover. I still have a few Landy buddies and they all complain about this engine. The Td5 was in my opinion much better.
In general, I would like to ad that the Landy suspension is the best in the business (without a doubt, with the possible exception of the G-wagon). Wheel articilation is almost unrivalled in its standard form. The reason for the few suspension upgrades is because Landies don't like it if you tamper with its suspension. I made the mistake on my 110 and lifted it with 25mm. I developed a vibration on the propshafts as a result and I broke the universal on the front prop on 80 000km (almost lost my foot as a result). The prop hit a hole in the floorplat and almost took my foot off. This was due to fatique caused by the vibration. Nobody can argue however that the working ground clearance on the Landy is the best in the market. It just comes at a price in terms of road safety, etc. due to bodyroll.
The nice thing about Defenders is the range of aftermarket accessories available for it. I found it difficult to do the same with my Patrol (Where does the watertank AND TAP GO?)
I do not have anything against Land Rover. I loved every Landy I drove and still drive the Disco 3. Nobody will however convince me that the traction control on the Puma, which is based on the old ABS technology used in the Disco 2, will outclass the Patrol with its rear diff lock. I have personally tested it and the Patrol will conquer obstacles where the Defender gets stuck. Fit a rear locker in the Defender and you have a different animal however.
In general, I love my Patrol because it is comfortable, powerfull, reliable, capable and ...... in my garage.
1. All my Defenders had niggles. They spend more time in the repair shop than in my garage. My last Defender were in 6 times for an aircon problem. I sold it with 25 000km on the clock to buy the Patrol. Defender owners never admit it, but Defenders give you lots of hassles. They don't neccessarily leave you stranded but will irritate you with small issues and niggles. Diff problems, aircon problems, gearbox seals, etc. etc. etc.
2. They were uncomfortable, aspecially in the back seat for my family. Leg-room is cramped and Defenders leak water (which is still ok). Floorplates became very hot during long trips and the aircon just does not reach the back passangers (when in Savuti). The latest version is better, but not there yet.
3. I am very dissappointed with the tranction control on the Puma. It just doesn't work well. You have to loose traction before it kicks in. You have to adapt your driving technique dramatically and there were certain (Grade 5) obsticals that I just could not conquer with the traction control and centre diff lock. You need a rear difflock and that is why I had to install an ARB locker in the Defender. My Patrol breezes through these obstacles (in standard version) because of the rear diff lock.
4. Safety. Have you seen what a Defender looks like when it overturns at 120km/h? Nothing is left of it due to all the aluminium. I have seen it and it resulted in a terrible family tragedy because the roofstructure could not protect the heads of the passangers. Not great to see.
5. I have always over-loaded the roofrack of my vehicles on overland trips. This is when you pick up extra firewood when you enter the parks, etc. Sometimes I could not even get my doors open due to the weight on the roof. I did exactly the same with the Patrol recently and did not even notice the weight. The Landy roofstructure is not nearly as strong as the Patrol.
6. The Puma engine is a huge dissappointment. It lacks power when you tow. It is common complaint at Land Rover and is only rectified with a Dastek Unichip. You experience a loss of power when towing or when you drive with a head wind. It is a problem on the ECU which for some or other reason is not addressed by Land Rover. I still have a few Landy buddies and they all complain about this engine. The Td5 was in my opinion much better.
In general, I would like to ad that the Landy suspension is the best in the business (without a doubt, with the possible exception of the G-wagon). Wheel articilation is almost unrivalled in its standard form. The reason for the few suspension upgrades is because Landies don't like it if you tamper with its suspension. I made the mistake on my 110 and lifted it with 25mm. I developed a vibration on the propshafts as a result and I broke the universal on the front prop on 80 000km (almost lost my foot as a result). The prop hit a hole in the floorplat and almost took my foot off. This was due to fatique caused by the vibration. Nobody can argue however that the working ground clearance on the Landy is the best in the market. It just comes at a price in terms of road safety, etc. due to bodyroll.
The nice thing about Defenders is the range of aftermarket accessories available for it. I found it difficult to do the same with my Patrol (Where does the watertank AND TAP GO?)
I do not have anything against Land Rover. I loved every Landy I drove and still drive the Disco 3. Nobody will however convince me that the traction control on the Puma, which is based on the old ABS technology used in the Disco 2, will outclass the Patrol with its rear diff lock. I have personally tested it and the Patrol will conquer obstacles where the Defender gets stuck. Fit a rear locker in the Defender and you have a different animal however.
In general, I love my Patrol because it is comfortable, powerfull, reliable, capable and ...... in my garage.
the windows rattle, leak in the rain and carwash, the rear door lock was replaced 3 times. One time I simply closed the rear door and the window shattered. And this is wat I believe makes me a good Land Rover owner. I was not surprised, upset, or shocked when it happened. I was lauging my arse off at the ou tannie that got a fright when the window exploded 
. 
they must have the most character out of any 4x4. They just look right.