Patrol as a retirement vehicle

[dieselfan]

Back from a week in Bots - business ;( SAW LOADS of Patrols and Cruisers. +-30 per day. in the whole week only ONCE saw mud tyres! The locals all use 694's and Hankook RF10's. Also only once saw BF AT it was a GP plate. Jap imports are overrated.
Anyways

Frans
BMW engines in my experience are the worst compared to just about anything. My FIL had 3 LR's with the 320D engine, first one lasted 6 weeks and seized. Second one 4 months and gearbox and turbo failed. 3rd one he kept for 2 years but gave intermittent issues. My BIL has also had 3 BMW 330D's in the last 2 years. FORTUNATELY he recently (2 Jun 2011) just sold at a 75k knock the last one (ie 75k less that what he owed the bank). He spent over 130k in 12 months. From waterpumps to injectors to turbo's. He now has a 08 530i, was in repairs for last 2 weeks - yes after only having it for +-1 week.When I did tests on engines for light aircraft use I took a couple of engines a BMW being one. I ran all the engines at max rpm. The BMW (1200) lasted 45 mins. The Jap engines ran out of fuel at 5 hours. Yes I had good cooling. I fitted and fly with a Jap engine. At Tarlton the engines you ALWAYS see POP are BMW's. They're over engineered crap. We had a R500k 330D too traded it in for a Xtrail at only 25000km. Thats 8 out of 8. No wonder they rank so lowly on the European reliability index.

Peter

My point is that the D3's standard articulation is very impressive compared to other SRA's fortuners, rubi's BUT it's still like driving on air. I uploaded my youtube edit today but it was too long so must split it. You will see one BIG advantage picked up in editing, at one point the rear was low due to angles / weight. The car automatically raised itself more.

I also SUSPECT IRS should give better grip than SRA as the camber is barely reduced in a cross axle situation, whereas a SRA will mean only the edges of the tyres have grip?

[Dr Chris]

Hi Everybody,
I can forsee that this is going to be an extended debate and rightly so for those of us who fit the bil?!
There has been a wealth of good bits of advice already, and I have listed and learned from some great replies!

I kept my Patrol after retirement,(and withstood the glares of the green people), and continue to be amazed at the paucity of total costs to date (obviously excluding petrol) that have been minimal, (collapsed starter motor, replaced lambda sensors, replaced front discs, some wiring hassles., etc ), and otherwise just nothing else. Just compare the costs of running a diesel (again excluding the fuel)?

Most of us in retirement do not want to spend/lose capital, and while we budget for running costs, I think the emphasis is on what you do with your retirement - for us personally, it's pulling a boat/caravan, or 4x4 travelling, and not using the Patrol as a run about in town - for that we have a VW Polo, (and a Nissan bakkie if need be).

My obvious bias is to strongly recommend a 4,8 GRX Patrol - well chosen and used, (to control capital costs), and enjoy the outdoors - much more exciting than sitting in a complex readng the newspaper, or watching TV - especially local!!
Regards,
Chris.

[Peter Connan]

Dieselfan

I also SUSPECT IRS should give better grip than SRA as the camber is barely reduced in a cross axle situation, whereas a SRA will mean only the edges of the tyres have grip?

This depends very much on the configuration of the cross-axle obstacle. If it is the type of holes dug in the road bed as usually found on trails, then you may be correct. But if it is a twist in the road bed, such as a low wall or ditch that has to be crossed, or a rock face you need to approach at a slight angle, then live axles are likely to get the angle right more of the time. Also remember 1) On the Patrol you can have 16"wheels (15" on our old Y60's) and therefore you have a higher sidewall than on the low-profiles you are forced to use by the 18" wheels on the D3 and 19" wheels on the D4, which can conform much better to irregularities on the ground, particularly if deflated somewhat, and 2) that traction is to a large extent dependent not only on how much of the wheel is in contact with the ground, but also on contact pressure, and this tends to compensate for wheel angle.

SA4x4 measured the articulation of the D4 at 505RTI20 when in road height, but that reduces substantially when you lift the car for more clearance, which is exactly when you need the most articulation. A standard patrol scores over 600RTI20, although this is not measured on the same ramp. For interest's sake, 505RTI20 on a D4 equates to lifting one wheel 500mm, while 610 on a Patrol equates to 620mm.

Yamiax on this forum has a 4" TJM lift and extended sway bar links on his patrol, and scores around 860RTI20! That equates to 870mm. Now I know that is a modified car, but the cost of the mods is relatively small, and I would like to see anybody equal that on a D3 or D4, and then I want to see the cost of that conversion.

With regard to the Patrols in Bots, when I was there the vast majority of Patrols I saw were government vehicles (you can tell by the number plate), and the newish cruisers were also mostly either government or South African. On these vehicles, tires are usually not the operator's choice, but are the choise of some pencil-pusher with a calculator in his hand.

The older Patrols and Cruisers we saw which were obviously used by safari companies, there was about a 50/50 split between mari biscuits on split rims (old fashioned mud-terrains) and newer mud or A/T tires.

[Herrie]

Just remember with independant suspension the empty vehicle looks very high of the ground but as soon as you start loading the vehicle you are loosing you ground clearance

[dieselfan]

Just remember with independant suspension the empty vehicle looks very high of the ground but as soon as you start loading the vehicle you are loosing you ground clearance

Not on a D3/D4. My clips of the D3 at Hennops is uploaded just had to reencode part 1 with a different sound track!!!

Peter
Makes sense what you say, just one thing though I WAS impressed with LR when my parents bought it we asked for 17" as opposed to 18" they said no hassle, we also chose the tyres and they refunded the originals, Nissan said no you get HT's if you want AT's you will get 5 HT's too...anyways ALL the patrols I've seen have 17" too. 265/75/17 if I recall.

Land Rover think about a lot more details when it comes to 4x4ing.

As for Bots, the Gov vehicles were mostly 4.2 bakkies the SUV Patrols and LC were driven by whities and I'm ASSUMING non goverment. I spoke to 3 tyre fitment places, they said most the lodges used Hankook AT's. then again the manager thought the RF10 (AT) was a MT ;).

Back to OT, looks like we missed a Fully kitted out Patrol, during my trip on Bots. My dad not impressed with me...speaking of retirement vehicles, anyone followed the Kingsley trips? I know he has a support team but LR will be learning LOADS about reliability for their vehicles, good testing grounds per se.

[KOOS BEST]

Just remember with independant suspension the empty vehicle looks very high of the ground but as soon as you start loading the vehicle you are loosing you ground clearance

Not on a D3/D4.

The D3/D4 or Range Rovers although they have IFS are not at all effected but what ever load they are asked to carry. Even after loaded over 1.5 tons AND fitted with bull bars, winches, aux. tanks, roof racks , extra spare wheel carriers, draw systems ect.. THEY NEED NOT TO GO FOR AFTERMARKET SUSPENSION UPGRADES OR FOR THAT MATTER ANY AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE UPGRADE.

Air suspension has proved a boon when driving on different surfaces with different loads and towing weights, because the height control system ensures that ground clearance remains constant.

[Herrie]

At the last Bridgestone Fundi Challenge at Bass Lake a guy with his Disco broke his rear air bag on the first obstacle - not even a dificult obstacle!

[Peter Vee]

The D3/D4 or Range Rovers although they have IFS are not at all effected but what ever load they are asked to carry. Even after loaded over 1.5 tons AND fitted with bull bars, winches, aux. tanks, roof racks , extra spare wheel carriers, draw systems ect.. THEY NEED NOT TO GO FOR AFTERMARKET SUSPENSION UPGRADES OR FOR THAT MATTER ANY AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE UPGRADE.

All I can say that my D3 TDV6 SE was a great "tow car" ... lots of torque and comfortable.. only extras I had fitted were winch bar, winch and pirelli scorpion A/T 18' tyres. It was happiness for 2 years of towing my boat (see pic below) fully loaded to Moz many times. It's fuel consumption on open road when not towing was in region of 13km to litre which dropped to 4.5 km to litre when towing my skiboat (same as what my 4.8 GRX does ... towing or not). My concern with the vehicle started after about 4th trip when the gearbox starting "self governing" revs and power when going up the steep long hills of Schoemanskloof en route to Nelspruit ... so much so that the vehicle was literally crawling. This continued to happen on and off when working the car very hard .... LR's response was that the gear box was being over taxed and was "protecting itself".... hell I bought it to be able to tow 3.5 tons without hassles!

My earlier post explains why I choose to go for a Patrol and after this past weekends trip I am more and more convinced it was the right thing to do. If fuel consumption was a key criteria then I would have bought an Uno ;) .... am used to the idea now so it is no longer an issue!

Regards

[Tinus lotz]

Ok let's get back to topic.......
I have only heard one complain about the 4.8 and that it sucks 20l per 100km ?

[Herrie]

Yes Tinus, I agree with you - there is no other issues

Theuhan at NorthWest Nissan has a white 4.8 Patrol at a very good price!