Nissan Patrol 4x4 (Africa)

JoshJ wrote: with no punctures because he uses a 3 ply side wall tire. Bf g muds.

Don't kid yourself. I've ruined enough BFG Muds (including sidewalls) to know that they are hardly indestructible. Some of the Michelin truck tyres are pretty good though.

Ok to get back to the point...me personally dont think a second spare is needed...when you monitor pressure chances are pretty good you gonna fix problem before you lose a tire ...what i do suggest is carrying 2 mushroom plugs and a gater or two as part of tire repair kit.
If all else fails a tube is a lot less weight to carry and can get you home or to a place where you can buy a tire.
I have never had this problem but just carry the stuff to sort it out .a big needle and some dacron can stich a sidewall hole .Then the tube comes in handy

I have a double spare wheel carrier on my 130 Landy with no problems at all, been there now for 3 years and done some realy bad roads with it! I also have a burnco double spare carrier on the back of my 4.8 GU but only use the right spare wheel carrier (cant fit the second spare wheel anyway because of my ladder being in the way!) to be honest the main reason that I fitted the replacement bumper on the patrol was not to carry the spares but for high lift jacking. When I sold my 4.5 I also sold Wimpies replacement rear bumper with it (it was not fitted) I think that this is a good system, on the right is a swing away spare wheel and mounting for hi lift jack and a spade, on the left swing away was space for 1 jerry and a gas bottle. If you drop me a pm I will give you the guys name and number that bought my 4.5 you may be able to get him to sell it to you

Tinus lotz wrote:http://m.ebay.com/itm/131392961575?nav=SEARCH
Of hier
Kos omtrent dieselfde as een tire
Die sender moet binne die rim wees

Ek het dit prober - problem die sender wou nie op 'n "after market" mag pas nie...........

Dirk ek het so jaar terug omtent 12 van daai verkoop ...ek dink jy moet jou tire plek op n kursus stuur...lol

Tinus lotz wrote: ...what i do suggest is carrying 2 mushroom plugs and a gater or two as part of tire repair kit.
....a big needle and some dacron can stich a sidewall hole .Then the tube comes in handy

So just to be clear, given my R5 coin sized cut (which made my tyre sound like a giant coke bootle being opened too quickly):
Would the tube plus big needle to fix the sidewall have sufficed?
And how robust is that a solution, when you have another 150 km to drive on the same terain that caused the cut in the first place?

I am not going to pretend that I am the most experienced off-roader here, or anywhere else, but I have owned my Patrol for seven years now, and driven it to many places including through Botswana twice, Swaziland twice, Lesotho and various places in SA, including a number of the Northern-cape roads known as tire eaters.

I have also done a variety of off-road trials, most of them on rocky terrain. These include some pretty hair-rasing ones.

I have had several "flats" in that time. These include several caused by the original steel rims splitting, a stick through a 3-ply BFG sidewall and various large bolts, lorrie valve assemblies and so forth.

The BFG that got a stick through the sidewall was repaired with a mushroom plug, served as a sixth spare on my first trip to Bots and is still lying under my workbench. It is still up to pressure as well, and I am quite sure it would last a 500km journey if necessary.

All the other punctures were repaired without even removing the wheel from the car.

More interesting, I have only once had a puncture on a trip, and that was on the tar road outside Umtata. After that first trip, I have never carried a sixth wheel again, and never missed it either. Perhaps I have merely been lucky, but I believe that the following factors should be taken into account:
1) It is crucial to keep your tire temperatures under control. Temperature is mostly a function of pressure, load and speed.
2) Do not use old tires. Rotate your spare, so that you replace all five as a set. I believe this is a large part of why people lose two tires on a trip. The first one is bad luck, the second is an old tire waiting for an opportunity.
3) Look after your sidewalls, as tread damage is easier/safer to repair. Fortunately, this is easier in a Patrol than in most other cars, because most of the sidewall tears I have seen were caused by cars sliding/tires spinning into obstructions, and the PAtrol's articulation and low-down torque allow you to limit these activities.

Would I go without a spare? I don't think so.

Alex Roux wrote:If what you say is true, can one not then extend the argument that ons does not need any spare on a long trip anymore?
I.e., if you don't need 2 spares, then why need 1? You always stop when pressure drops quickly, and patch up - off you go again.

If you need two, do you not need three? or four? Exactly the same argument.

Flying is too dangerous because of the risk that there can be a bomb on board the plane. However, since the risk of two bombs being on board the plane is so low that it I deem it perfectly safe to fly, I now just carry my own bomb along whenever I need to fly.

Now statistically speaking the same principle lies behind both these arguments. The question is can you control, influence or manipulate the propability.

Remember, you DO NOT need a spare wheel. You only need a spare wheel once you have a flat wheel that cannot be repaired. You carry a spare wheel based on the propability that you may get a puncture/damaged tyre. The propability of this happening is defined by various factors (road conditions, speed, load, etc.) and will be specific toe each individual. You can calculate the average interval between tyre incidents by deviding the total distance in km travelled by the number of incidents. You can refine it by further looking into type of road, type of load etc. But this is merely the average interval and not indicative of the propability, which depend on various factors, but is a good departure point. So one need to balance the probability and the outcome of an incident taking place.

The amount of caution applied have a big influence on the propability, even though it can not reduce it to 0%. However, after the first puncture/tyre damaged, more caution will be applied and it can be safely assumed the propabilty of sustaining another puncture will decrease. Then looking at the average interval for the specific conditions it will become clear that, though not impossible, it is highly unlikely. TPMS etc all reduce the propability. But the argument should be, if I sustain a irrepairable puncture, is the next place where I can get it repaired/replaced within a distance that allows a reasonable propability for me to reach it safely? Normally, even in Angola/Botswana/Zambia/Mozambique, that is 1 fuel tank away, but may require to deviate from planned route.

If you really, justifiably, required two spares for each trip, it would be indicative that owning a patrol is very expensive and you spend more on tyres than fuel.

If you do not have a TPMS and you are worried about the effects of losing a tyre, a 150km interval tyre-stop (and then you have to measure the pressure) will allow you to catch the slow punctures in time.
Daily checks of tyre pressure is essential and I do not know a lot of people who do this, or even check wheel nuts regularly.

I will speak for myself, but I believe 1 is enough for my type of use and my requirements.

I do not contest the value of the TPMS. I think it is a very valuable and important tool

My point is simple:
TPMS is not fool proof. If it was, then you would not have "needed"(*) one spare.
So the fact that you "need" one, implies that it is matter of judgment (or your personal tolerance to risk) that will determine how many spares you should travel with.

(*) I know you do not NEED one until you lose one of the other four.
The point is you decide for yourself how many you want to travel with, given the risks you are prepared to take.

Someone commenting here is using Nankang tyres. I think they are the reason I started carring 2 spares. When I started over landing (again) 10 years ago the first Troll I bought had some. On one trip the one tyre developed a serious bulge and another a serious flat spot. I was lucky the exhaust support broke in the Richtersveld and had to be welded and thats when I noticed. No more Nankangs for me! Ever!

I agree that its about the risk you are prepared to take. On trips to remote places I normally have my family with me and so for me its about how much risk do I want to expose them to. I think most of us are probably guilty of not checking the tyres often enough so another technology that can do this for you is probably a good idea. But it can also fail and give you a false sense of security. Best option is probably to do the right thing and get that pressure gauge out more often.

On the 2 jerry cans story: I have used mine several times even with my long range tank. On my Namib dune trip I even needed another 2.

So I am pretty reconciled to carrying at least 2 jerry cans and 2 spare tyres. My problem is where to carry them. It seems like I am stuck with roof racks as the only option. That is a pain because it looks like its going to cost me about R8 grand. Unless someone can tell me where to get a light roof rack with 8 legs for less than that?