Retirement bakkie

[jakeslouw]

I'm looking around for a 4x4 bakkie that will outlast me and not break the bank on maintenance and repairs.

It should be HARD: I stay on a farm and the farm servitude road is not maintained. I can't afford to replace bushes every 10,000kms and I don't drive like a granny.

I'm not keen on paying Toyota Tax, though, so an LC70 is pretty much out of the equation.

Can any owners of the Patrol Y61 pickup let me know if there are any issues or problems? I'd be looking for the TD42 version. I'm a little nervous of the ZD30.

[Peter Connan]

The front end of the pickup is the same as the wagon.
About half the bushes are actually interchangeable with 70-series Cruiser bushes. Steering components (typically the first to wear out) are considerably larger than Cruiser equivalents.
The rear leaf springs are longer than 70-series, thus the deflection angles (same bump, same speed) should be smaller.

In terms of durability of the suspension and drivetrain (with the possible exception of the transfer case) I believe the Patrol to be the superior product.
The transfer case is a mixed bag. The Cruiser has an all-geared transfer case with the front and rear propshafts on a common shaft. The Patrol has a straight output to the rear axle, but a chain to the front. If the vehicle is used in 4x4 extensively, this chain will eventually stretch. But because the rear propshaft connection is a direct dog clutch setup, it is more reliable than the Cruiser's rear drive setup.

If used hard with heavy loads the chassis can crack behind the cab and later Eskom vehicles were re-enforced in this area, but that's apparently also true of the 70-series bakkies they used.

My feeling is that the Patrol bakkie is inferior in three places.
The tailgate
The robustness of interior fittings
The cooling system, especially on the TD42.

[jakeslouw]

Thanks Peter

So that brings some questions, based on my last experiences with Nissan that ended 20 years ago........

- Are the suspension components going to be as hard to get as the old D21 Hardbodys became, now that the Y61 is End of Sales? What about other spares such as trim, switches, etc?
- I assume the transfer case is the TX12?
- What is the issue with the cooling system? Pump or radiator? Or bad design?

Vehicle will remain as standard as possible. I might change the turbo to a later GTX2860 VNT just to get rid of the lag. I'll talk to the Gauteng independents for that. The fuel will only be tweaked to the point where it can't over-fuel but still generate ponies.
Use will be mild 4x4 and general farm work: sand, stone, cement, poles, pipes, etc.

My current farm hack is a 2010 Tata Xenon that has not broken or missed a beat despite being abused and neglected. It's an understressed 3.0L inline 4 that generates 77kW. I'm retiring it as spares are getting scarce and it doesn't have aircon. The TD42 will do me just fine.

[Dungbeetle]

A TD42 at standard with engine good and overheatng is due to 2 reasons. Old clogged radiator. Chuck it out for new. And if you have raised suspension ensure your splashguards inside the wheel arches are in good condition and properly fitted, else pressure builds up in the engine bay from there restricting flow through the radiator.

The waterpump is indestructible, mine going for 24years nd almost 900K km

Not to mention proper coolant use....

Also check the thermostat housing, It could be damaged passing some of the water flow back to the radiator instead of the intended cooling path.

[Peter Connan]

Nissan are useless. I haven't bought anything from them for probably 8 years.

We have a number of guys right here on the forum who can between them supply almost anything you may need.

As far as the overheating goes, The design is somewhat marginal. If you keep the state of tune mild, take good care of it and don't put a bunch of accessories in front of the radiator it will be fine.

But start adding a couple of those things, and it becomes very difficult.

[jakeslouw]

No intention to put anything in front.

I seldom drive the farm bakkie at night, so a set of upgraded globes would be the limit of my intervention there. No spots planned, and if I did, a pair of slimline LEDs.

I also don't intend or need to winch, and if I did, I'd make a plan using a tow-bar hitch mount for a small winch.

Would an upgraded radiator help? What about an oil cooler? Is the standard turbo water cooled or just oil-fed? Is the issue at speed (usually a pump volume issue ) or is the issue apparent under load (usually a radiator size problem and/or clutch fan issue)?

Also, I assume the top-mount IC is pretty much useless? Should I switch to front mount?

And <shudder>, should I consider a later ZD30 model? They were available here if I recall?

[Peter Connan]

The issue is normally load-related. But there is not much room for a larger radiator.
Nissan's radiator seems to be better than what any of the "specialists" can achieve.

Front-mounted intercooler is best, but mount it low down. If you can mount it behind the bull-bar, it is basically completely below the radiator. Look at BZT's bull bar, it has been specially designed for this. But any winch-mount bar can be opened up to provide air flow to an cooler mounted there.

Oil coolers can help but have some issues. Firstly the TD42 has a dual oil filter arrangement, but the filters are in paralel. Thus if you only mount a sandwhich adapter behind one filter, all the oil just flows through the other and hardly anything through the cooler. But space to mount two and get oil piping in is pretty tight. And of course one then has the risk of the piping popping off or chafing through. I consider oil coolers a last resort. I think it is possible to mount the cooler piping directly to the adapter on the block onto which the filters mount, but don't know if anybody has tried it yet.

But with the mods you are planning I don't think you jeed to worry too much as long as you drive it with a tiny bit of sympathy.

I have a Y60 (which has a smaller radiator than the Y61) with a TD42, with the standard Bakkie turbo fitted, but with the wastegate actuator disconnected. It boosts around 0.9 Bar and generates just over 100KW and 410Nm at the wheels, which plenty. I have a newish Nissan radiator, a low-resistance grill, front-mounted intercooler and nothing else in front of the radiator. Also no oil coolers. Drove up Abel Erasmus pass the day before yesterday around mid-day (37°C ambient) and never once had to slow down for temps. There is a 12km long continuous uphil on that road and for fairly long sections of it I was flat taps.

The turbo itself is oil cooled.

As for the ZD30, you win some and you lose some. I think it's a better engine on the road. More top-end power, and more efficient.
But it doesn't have the pre-boost bottom end torque of the TD.

[ChristoSlang]

Jakes, what Peter said

Also, the TD42 has no ECU (as you well know!) so it can't manage its fuel mixture. If you run it hard with aggressive fueling and insufficient air, it will overfuel & temps will go up. The simple fix is to reduce the fueling on the diesel pump. If you see black smoke behind you when you're gunning it, simply crank the fuel screw down a tad. Overfueling can also happen when your air filter clogs up, so good service habits are crucial.

You can also increase the boost (within safe limits obviously!) to match your fueling. I've maxed out my fuel pump and then adjusted the boost to ensure that my EGTs remain decent & that there's no smoke. I'm using a cheap Chinese copy of the disco potato that you have in mind (around R4k5 at Mr Turbo, I suspect) and also running around 0.9 bar like Peter. My old turbo was very small, and while it spooled up at very low revs it became a horrible heat pump at higher revs. But a TD42 with a decently matched turbo should run very cool when used to haul barrels of brew or a few dirt bikes around on farm roads.

I also moved Chuck's intercooler from a top mount to a bottom mount (I kid you not). Coolant temps dropped substantially and I now average around 75-80 C for normal driving. Hammering it on a hot day with the aircon on, I need a very long uphill to get it close to 100 C according to the Madman. At that stage the OEM temperature gauge is about 2/3 or 3/4 to the red mark. Tapping off quickly reduces the coolant temperatures.

Finally, there are two different ZD30 motors. The earlier ones (that got the hand grenade reputation) and the later CRD versions. The CRD guys swear by their vehicles. The ZD30s are a lot more complicated than the fork lift TD42 motor - proper ECU with mixture control, exhaust gas recirculation, variable vane turbo, etc. One of our colleagues bought one recently and he's at the office (remember that place?) most days if you want to check it out. His name starts with a Mario and ends with a Van Zyl...

[Dungbeetle]

Jakes, what Peter said

Also, the TD42 has no ECU (as you well know!) so it can't manage its fuel mixture. If you run it hard with aggressive fueling and insufficient air, it will overfuel & temps will go up. The simple fix is to reduce the fueling on the diesel pump. If you see black smoke behind you when you're gunning it, simply crank the fuel screw down a tad. Overfueling can also happen when your air filter clogs up, so good service habits are crucial.

You can also increase the boost (within safe limits obviously!) to match your fueling. I've maxed out my fuel pump and then adjusted the boost to ensure that my EGTs remain decent & that there's no smoke. I'm using a cheap Chinese copy of the disco potato that you have in mind (around R4k5 at Mr Turbo, I suspect) and also running around 0.9 bar like Peter. My old turbo was very small, and while it spooled up at very low revs it became a horrible heat pump at higher revs. But a TD42 with a decently matched turbo should run very cool when used to haul barrels of brew or a few dirt bikes around on farm roads.

I also moved Chuck's intercooler from a top mount to a bottom mount (I kid you not). Coolant temps dropped substantially and I now average around 75-80 C for normal driving. Hammering it on a hot day with the aircon on, I need a very long uphill to get it close to 100 C according to the Madman. At that stage the OEM temperature gauge is about 2/3 or 3/4 to the red mark. Tapping off quickly reduces the coolant temperatures.

Finally, there are two different ZD30 motors. The earlier ones (that got the hand grenade reputation) and the later CRD versions. The CRD guys swear by their vehicles. The ZD30s are a lot more complicated than the fork lift TD42 motor - proper ECU with mixture control, exhaust gas recirculation, variable vane turbo, etc. One of our colleagues bought one recently and he's at the office (remember that place?) most days if you want to check it out. His name starts with a Mario and ends with a Van Zyl...

Nice post.....spot on

Me also super happy with my 2014 CRD

[jakeslouw]

What do you okes think about this one?

Been on the market for a while. Obviously would then have issues.

https://www.cars.co.za/for-sale/used/20 ... NqKOnZnjzA