Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

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Re: Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

Post by MarBar »

SJC wrote: 11 Oct 2023 10:22 Do you know what brand front locker is installed. Does it have a button on the dash to engage/activate the locker?
Hi again, SJC. Unless I'm misremembering, the button was actually on the central console. Unfortunately, I didn't enquire about the brand. :rolleyes:
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Re: Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

Post by SJC »

The OEM rear diff lock will have a diff lock switch similar to the on in the pic. (this one is from my gq/y60, gu/y61 might look slightly different).
IMG_6452.JPG
If there is an additional switch then there is most likely another (front) diff lock installed.
Unless an auto locker eg lokka is installed, then there will be no switch.
MarBar wrote: 11 Oct 2023 11:18 What I was "surprised to see" was precisely the hub lockers like those in the photo. From what I understand, which is admittedly next to nothing, the front hubs have a lock function, which I was confusing with the diff lock proper in my first post. I used the plural form because this lock function is on both hubs, but I see know it's used in the singular. :doh: When going under the car, I have to admit I just searched for oil leaks and checked the state of the driveshaft, so I didn't even notice the diff lock.
But yes, as you mentioned, the Y61 Patrol got auto locking hubs, which can also be "locked". It is usually better to lock them when driving trails to prevent them from unlocking.
The y60 Patrol and Y61 pickup got manual locking hubs. They must be locked in order to enable 4x4 drive. (yes it is does not lock the diff).

More info on the topic in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=9901


IMG_6453.JPG
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Re: Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

Post by MarBar »

Thanks for the detailed explanation, SJC!
SJC wrote: 11 Oct 2023 16:26 If there is an additional switch then there is most likely another (front) diff lock installed.
Unless an auto locker eg lokka is installed, then there will be no switch.
I'm 99% sure there was only one switch, so this seems to settle it: most likely no front lock on that Patrol, unfortunately.
SJC wrote: 11 Oct 2023 16:26 More info on the topic in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=9901
Just had a look at that helpful thread and Peter was already warning everyone about exactly the silly mistake I made: "Many novices seem to believe that locking hubs are synonymous with an axle locker. This is very much not the case." My mix-up in a nutshell. I'm having a good laugh at this. :lol:

Thanks for showing me the way, guys. I really appreciate it. :thumbup:
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Re: Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

Post by SJC »

Not sure if I missed it being mentioned somewhere, but how much is the seller wanting for the car?
If he want too much, there will be more coming along. The right patrol will find you. :wink:
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Re: Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

Post by Dewald »

I figured that you might have mistaken the hubs for lockers, just wanted to make sure so you dont end up buying it thinking you have a front diff lock and afterwards find out you dont. Some sellers might not correct you and some might not even know them selves. I have seen numerous vehicles advertsed with lockers to find they refer to the free wheel hubs.

The Jimny has vacume operated auto hubs and that is why it doesnt look like these that you can selectively lock.

Like Fanus mentioned you will find the right one should you not take this one.
Just to give you an idea, 3 months ago i bought a one owner 2005 4.8 Grx with 275000 km's on for R144000 after i missed a 08 one for even less.

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Re: Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

Post by Dewald »

SJC wrote: 11 Oct 2023 17:21 Not sure if I missed it being mentioned somewhere, but how much is the seller wanting for the car?
If he want too much, there will be more coming along. The right patrol will find you. :wink:
Good evening Fanus.

If i am not mistaken i saw it was R140000 for a while and it then dropped to R135000.

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Re: Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

Post by MarBar »

Dewald wrote: 11 Oct 2023 18:34 I figured that you might have mistaken the hubs for lockers, just wanted to make sure so you dont end up buying it thinking you have a front diff lock and afterwards find out you dont. Some sellers might not correct you and some might not even know them selves. I have seen numerous vehicles advertsed with lockers to find they refer to the free wheel hubs.

The Jimny has vacume operated auto hubs and that is why it doesnt look like these that you can selectively lock.
Thanks, Dewald! Reading up on the topic here and elsewhere has helped clear some of my misconceptions. This reminds me of a thread a while back on 4x4 Community where a member found out that the bargain Mitsubishi Triton 3.2 he had bought was actually an expensive 2.5. So, I really want to do my homework well beforehand.
Dewald wrote: 11 Oct 2023 18:34 Like Fanus mentioned you will find the right one should you not take this one.
Just to give you an idea, 3 months ago i bought a one owner 2005 4.8 Grx with 275000 km's on for R144000 after i missed a 08 one for even less.
Thank you for the prices. It does help me to understand what is possible. Would you say the upgrade from a 4.5 to a 4.8 is worth the increase in price? Most everyone seems to think so.
Dewald wrote: 11 Oct 2023 18:45
SJC wrote: 11 Oct 2023 17:21 Not sure if I missed it being mentioned somewhere, but how much is the seller wanting for the car?
If he want too much, there will be more coming along. The right patrol will find you. :wink:
Good evening Fanus.

If i am not mistaken i saw it was R140000 for a while and it then dropped to R135000.
Yes, that's correct. I negotiated it down to R120 000 and think it can still be dropped a bit more, but not sure if enough for it to be a fair deal.
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Re: Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

Post by Peter Connan »

Ok, those are locking hubs, which have nothing at all to do with a diff lock.

The purpose of locking hubs is to dis-engage the drive shaft at the wheel. When these are dis-engaged and the transfer case is placed in the most forward position (2H), then the front prop shaft, front diff and side-shafts all remain stationary when the vehicle is driving.
This is done purely to save fuel. These MUST be used together. Locking one with the other un-locked can damage the differential.

However, those particular hubs are automatic hubs with a manual override in lock. In other words, if you leave them in the Auto position, and select 4WD, they will sense when the side shaft turns faster than the wheel and will lock up. They will then remain locked until the wheel turns faster than the side-shaft again, at which point they will un-lock. This primarily happens when the transfer case is put back into 2H, but will also happen if you reverse, and can happen in very rough terrain if a wheel lifts off the ground or if a rock moves under that wheel. For this reason, it is recommended that the hubs are manually locked when doing heavy 4x4 work, or in a situation where you are reversing direction. If you are just crossing some sand or mud, you can leave them in Auto.

The recommended practice is if you have used 4x4 but not manually locked the hubs, you should reverse a little bit after going back to 2H just to make doubly sure that the hubs have un-locked. If you locked them manually before engaging 4wd, this should not be necessary but on the other hand it can't hurt anything either.

Most modern vehicles that are part-time 4WD do have auto locking hubs, they just don't have the manual override into locked position and are typically covered over so you don't see them.

A diff lock positively locks one of the two side-shafts to the diff carrier housing, and since that holds the spider gears from turning, it effectively ensures that both wheels on that axle will always rotate at the same speed while the diff lock is engaged.

You are still using the plural "lockers". Is there just one diff lock switch, or two? If just one switch, this vehicle only has a locker in the rear axle. Not a train smash, still a very capable vehicle but not quite as capable as we might have dreamed.

Now just a sideways comment to help argue with the wife:
My Patrol is now 27 years and 460k km old. In that time it has tackled all the toughest 4x4 trials in this part of the country that are open to "normal" vehicles (so not talking about the buggy-only routes), most of them repeatedly and several of them annually for the last 13 years. Nothing mechanical in the drive-train has ever broken. Even the U-joints on the prop-shafts are still the originals (on some vehicles they are supposed to be replaced almost annually). I did once bend a lower control arm and an anti-sway bar, but nothing suspension-related has ever broken. I have always been able to drive it home from a trail.

I have been on trails where several other vehicles have broken and helped recover broken vehicles of all the other major brands. In one instance, another vehicle (widely advertised as being the best) broke two prop-shafts in a single obstacle.
You may pay more on fuel, but if you drive tough trails, you make up at least some of that on avoiding repair bills.
Mag ons ons kenniskry met lekkerkry aanhoukry.
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Re: Value of a 1998 4.5l Patrol GRX with over 400 000km

Post by MarBar »

Hi, Peter!

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation (and for your contributions elsewhere, which were also very clear).
Peter Connan wrote: 12 Oct 2023 06:35 You are still using the plural "lockers". Is there just one diff lock switch, or two? If just one switch, this vehicle only has a locker in the rear axle. Not a train smash, still a very capable vehicle but not quite as capable as we might have dreamed.
Almost certainly just one switch, I'm afraid!
Peter Connan wrote: 12 Oct 2023 06:35 My Patrol is now 27 years and 460k km old. In that time it has tackled all the toughest 4x4 trials in this part of the country that are open to "normal" vehicles (so not talking about the buggy-only routes), most of them repeatedly and several of them annually for the last 13 years. Nothing mechanical in the drive-train has ever broken. Even the U-joints on the prop-shafts are still the originals (on some vehicles they are supposed to be replaced almost annually). I did once bend a lower control arm and an anti-sway bar, but nothing suspension-related has ever broken. I have always been able to drive it home from a trail.

I have been on trails where several other vehicles have broken and helped recover broken vehicles of all the other major brands. In one instance, another vehicle (widely advertised as being the best) broke two prop-shafts in a single obstacle.
You may pay more on fuel, but if you drive tough trails, you make up at least some of that on avoiding repair bills.
I've shown the above to my wife, who did like the Patrol a lot. Yet, we have a few more vehicles to see, so it's still up in the air what we'll ultimately go for. Even if we end up not going for this Patrol (or another one for now), I'll always keep an eye out for them going forward and hopefully one day this itch will be scratched. :pray:
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