TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Engines and Engine Systems
symmetry4wd
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by symmetry4wd »

Peter Connan wrote: 07 Apr 2023 05:02 I don't think that is possible.

It would be easier and better (though probably not cheaper) to create a crank position sensor setup in the bell housing using index marks on the flywheel.
Ah ok, maybe getting all the bits from an EFI motor would work.
The EFI TB42's use a CAS on the Dizzy I believe.

mvcoller wrote: 07 Apr 2023 11:06
symmetry4wd wrote: 06 Apr 2023 14:49 Nothing against GU owners or their cars, and I hope this is taken offensively,
I just think the square, muscular, bulging arches, and lines of a GQ are just perfect for me, I also like a more simple or "basic" vehicle. The GU is much more generic SUV/Wagon/4x4 in my opinion, at least unmodified.
All just my opinion.
With that in mind, i'm still interested if anyone has any ideas on fuel injecting a TB42 Carb.
How many guys on the forum with a TB42 EFI, only ever heard of a handful in the country?
I have had both types, a 1995 GQ and I currently own two GU Y61s.

I really love the shape of the GQ, that square rugged look really makes it look what I think a real 4x4 shape should be (nearly like the old Nissan X-Trail macho square look vs the Jelly Bean lookalike new shape X-Trail).

A GQ with 10J rims and at least 33" tyres and a 3 inch lift is a stunner and looks wise, it is hard to beat, in my book at least!! (See pictures of mine). Mine could really intimidate Taxis and windgat youngsters in their pocket rockets, particularly after I fitted the Lexus V8 motor.

My biggest gripe with the GQ is the dash, console and middle row of seats.

I just don't like the whole dash-console setup. Its layout is yugh!!, and there is not much one can do to make it better. The window switches are all wrong there, as are the radio and tape-deck positions; low down it is hard to reach if you're belted into your seat and you have to take your eyes totally off the road for 5 to 10 seconds to see what you are doing, selecting a station.

The door cards of the GQ is also a total non-event, and the front ones is as much worth as tits on a tiger......

I also prefer a double din radio, my GQ had a radio and separate tape deck, a very messy layout. I much prefer the position of the GU/Y61 radio position higher up, you hardly have to take your eyes off the road to see what is happening on the dial. On the Series 4 Y61 the radio is already a double din, and on the earlier ones, it is easy to modify the dash to take one.

The middle row of seats are a real problem, you sit far too low, either the seat is too low or the floor is too high. I made 40mm spacers the lift the seats, but it was a mission to lift the clips that hold the seat in the normal seating position. The 40mm lift was still fairly uncomfortable for my two 6ft 3 in tall sons, as their heads were only about 10mm from the roof lining.

Not many people leave rear-most seats in the Patrols, I have them out in GU 3.0 GL (came without them) and left them in the GQ 4.5 GRX. I like the way the 6th and 7th seat bench folded forward in the GQ, the seats in my two GYs fold up to the side the same as the Fortuner does. It wastes too much space when folded. up.

I also prefer the total rugged strong looking front bumper replacements you get for the GUs, I have never seen a decent looking comparable replacement bumper on the GQs, they all look like a normal front bumper with cow-catching hoops.

As far as the TB42i is concerned, my Patrol had factory injection (it was a grey import from the UK with a MPH speedo, which was a problem). I do not know if it improved matters, apart from being reliable and working properly on steep inclines where a carb may have its chambers running dry. It was not at all light on fuel, on a Namib trip I got an average 2.23km per lt on the section from Solitaire through the Namib Spergebiet to Walvis. I was lucky to get 6km/lt on the open road. This despite me doing a MAUS conversion, including a chip to try and improving consumption.

Eventually I fitted a 149lt main tank from Northern Off Road and a 60lt secondary tank of my own design built by Uys van Rooyen of Stofpad 4x4. In total I could put 210lt of fuel in the system, which in 2011/12 cost me over R2500 to fill!!! This gave me a decent range between fill-ups....
Agreed with the GQ overall look, it just works for me, a proper looking 4x4 through and through!
Especially with some lift and some 33 or bigger tires!

The GQ interior is pretty simple, but in a way I like, I will say that the radio position isn't clever at all. I have an aftermarket double din (not touch screen as that just wouldn't be useful in the low down position and probably cause an accident), the only buttons I need to access are volume and skip track, so it works for me and I don't need to take my eyes off the road.
Other than that, I am very happy on the inside of my GQ, could be more, could be better, but not a bother to me.

Rear leg room is not the greatest for such a big car, has anyone ever moved the rear seats backwards? I bought mine with the 3rd row already removed.

There are a lot of those very rudimentary, "agricultural" looking front bumpers/bars for the GQ, but I have seen some nice ones, and will be designing and making my own sometime later this year, so will get it exactly how I want.

There's a lot of mixed reviews on the TB42 carb vs EFI, it's interesting to hear your experience.
I wouldn't be doing it for economy, I think i've come to terms with the fact that any TB won't be economical, just enjoy it. I would just be doing it to allow for a turbo, and to have better control in certain off-road situations, like mentioned on steep inclines.
My carb sounds like its getting similar economy to what you mentioned, though I would like to get it tuned by a guru and see if there is more power, smoothness and economy to be had. Your GQ looks fantastic by the way! :bravo: (it was set up by me who knows near to nothing about carbs).

The more I am digging, the more a TB45 EFI conversion my suit me better...
we will see though, I think it will come down to cost, it may end up being too expensive to convert to EFI.
I love my TB42 though, and would like to figure out something that works for me, my wallet and the engine.

Any idea's anyone what a TB45 conversion would set me back if I did all the mechanical and fab work myself, and just got someone to do the wiring???
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by Peter Connan »

Speak to Frans Fourie.
Mag ons ons kenniskry met lekkerkry aanhoukry.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by jakeslouw »

symmetry4wd wrote: 06 Apr 2023 21:48 Maybe @peter connan can answer this, or if anyone else has an idea

What would be needed to run the TB42 Carb distributer with an EFI system? not something I'm all that clued up on...
I would say you could fit an aftermarket EFI system with its own ECU. Something like a Gotech or Spitronics driving either a port injection system (needs engineering work or an original TB42E manifold) or a throttle body injection system. Injection signal can be taken off a Hall effect sensor and timing wheel (crank front or back), or less accurately, from the distributor pulses.

I would use the factory EFI manifold with fuel rail. That would be easiest. Then you just need a Gotech or Spitronics ECU plus the required sensors: fuel pressure, air pressure, air temp, crank position, etc, whatever the ECU requires. There are a lot of components to an EFI system, and you'd need to get throttle bodies and the like from a scrap yard.

But my opinion is that I'd rather save the cost of this conversion for petrol, or consider a TB45E conversion.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by symmetry4wd »

jakeslouw wrote: 13 Apr 2023 10:06
symmetry4wd wrote: 06 Apr 2023 21:48 Maybe @peter connan can answer this, or if anyone else has an idea

What would be needed to run the TB42 Carb distributer with an EFI system? not something I'm all that clued up on...
I would say you could fit an aftermarket EFI system with its own ECU. Something like a Gotech or Spitronics driving either a port injection system (needs engineering work or an original TB42E manifold) or a throttle body injection system. Injection signal can be taken off a Hall effect sensor and timing wheel (crank front or back), or less accurately, from the distributor pulses.

I would use the factory EFI manifold with fuel rail. That would be easiest. Then you just need a Gotech or Spitronics ECU plus the required sensors: fuel pressure, air pressure, air temp, crank position, etc, whatever the ECU requires. There are a lot of components to an EFI system, and you'd need to get throttle bodies and the like from a scrap yard.

But my opinion is that I'd rather save the cost of this conversion for petrol, or consider a TB45E conversion.
Thanks for the info!
For me it's the driveability and versatility of EFI, not Petrol consumption/cost etc

I probably would have said saving for a TB45E would probably be the overall easiest and effective options, but on the other hand.......

I just put down a deposit on a local TB42e engine that came up for sale here in Cape Town this week!!! :woo: :woo: :woo: :thumbup:
I can't believe it, what are the chances...
I should take collection at the end of the month.
Should get the complete engine, engine harness, ECU, Airbox etc etc The owner is going V8 in his Patrol.

Stoked!!!
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by jakeslouw »

symmetry4wd wrote: 13 Apr 2023 11:17 The owner is going V8 in his Patrol.
And you should have also thought about this. Rocket88 would have had you sorted. NOTHING beats a decent V8. I hope you didn't pay more than R20k for the TB42E.
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by SJC »

jakeslouw wrote: 13 Apr 2023 15:57
symmetry4wd wrote: 13 Apr 2023 11:17 The owner is going V8 in his Patrol.
And you should have also thought about this. Rocket88 would have had you sorted. NOTHING beats a decent V8. I hope you didn't pay more than R20k for the TB42E.
The cost of a v8 conversion vs an efi "mod", is probably a deciding factor in this instance... :think:
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by symmetry4wd »

jakeslouw wrote: 13 Apr 2023 15:57
symmetry4wd wrote: 13 Apr 2023 11:17 The owner is going V8 in his Patrol.
And you should have also thought about this. Rocket88 would have had you sorted. NOTHING beats a decent V8. I hope you didn't pay more than R20k for the TB42E.
R100K minimum for a decent V8 conversion vs the R12k I'm spending on the EFI, I don't think its a fair comparison. :thumbup:
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by symmetry4wd »

SJC wrote: 13 Apr 2023 19:10
jakeslouw wrote: 13 Apr 2023 15:57
symmetry4wd wrote: 13 Apr 2023 11:17 The owner is going V8 in his Patrol.
And you should have also thought about this. Rocket88 would have had you sorted. NOTHING beats a decent V8. I hope you didn't pay more than R20k for the TB42E.
The cost of a v8 conversion vs an efi "mod", is probably a deciding factor in this instance... :think:
100%
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by Alex Roux »

jakeslouw wrote: 13 Apr 2023 15:57
symmetry4wd wrote: 13 Apr 2023 11:17 The owner is going V8 in his Patrol.
And you should have also thought about this. Rocket88 would have had you sorted. NOTHING beats a decent V8. I hope you didn't pay more than R20k for the TB42E.
I am not convinced.
The Y60 / Y61 chassis was not designed for V8s. both in terms of width and the routing of the pipes to the back.
Yes, it can be done, but requires much more work than what I call a "native" conversion, i.e. putting a Nissan inline-6 engine inside a Y60/61 chassis. It fits and potential complications are much less (not least of all servicing your starter motor on a narrow chassis). Foreign conversion also fetch lower resale values. Purely as a toy, yes, but not as a day-to-day or touring vehicle. And even then, you can get a LOT of power out of turbo-ing the TB series engines. That option remains once you go fuel injected.
Skilpad, Shortie, Toro & Masewa
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Re: TB42S (Carb) aftermarket EFI options

Post by jakeslouw »

symmetry4wd wrote: 13 Apr 2023 21:37 R100K minimum for a decent V8 conversion vs the R12k I'm spending on the EFI, I don't think its a fair comparison. :thumbup:
R12k is acceptable. I'd then consider what Alex said and go for a turbo. The TB42 CR is 8.3:1 as far as I know, which implies a fair amount of boost can be added before you start reaching the 10:1 boundary. The issue then becomes adequate fuel delivery at boost, which implies bigger injectors and a better ECU which understands inlet air pressure and air flow.
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