low range gears

Transmissions, Transfer Boxes, Axles, Drive Shafts
Mystical_Beast
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: 26 Sep 2015 23:03
Full Name: Julian Hilder
Nickname: none
Home Town: Edenvale
Current 4x4: 2018 Patrol 4.8 Vortex SuperCharged
2007 RRS 4.4 V8
2004 Colt Rodeo 3000
SIII Landy pick-up
Home Language: English
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: low range gears

Post by Mystical_Beast »

40 % of my business is the manufacture of gears for various industries.
The biggest obstacle to manufacturing the reduction box gear sets would be batch quantity.

Again one would want an agreement on a specific reduction percentage that would suit everybody, in the hope to obtain some economies of scale.

Further, its not a matter of just cutting the gears, as the tooth profile would have to be ground to eliminate backlash and to ensure silent operation as well as longevity.
There would be a couple of processes involved before final product, starting with correct material selection as well as specific heat treatment process.

Ideally I would want to do a spectrograph analysis of the material used to establish if an equivalent alloy is readily available.
My suspicion is that is would be superior to OEM transfer box gears due to higher torque loading.

Finally, the best possible route would be to have the complete set and reverse engineer it, a fancy term for copying.

Further, having looked at the assembly, I would be able to offer the rebuild of the transfer case including the relevant machining required for a professional conversion.

In looking at what is involved I guestimate around R 15 to R 20000.00 excluding the building of the box.
The building/assembly and testing of the box including machining of the casing would probably add another R 5000.00
Any incorrect meshing of the gears will result in premature failure.

My gut feel would be around 10 units to make it around pricing indicated.
5 units would probably push the pricing up to around R 25000.00
If someone is able to lay their hands on a set of the actual reduction gears I would be able to do a proper analysis and costing.

The above however is probably pretty close to upper range as to what it would end up being.
Timing would be around 6 weeks to manufacture, however would suggest a proto-type is made first for testing.

If one were to make 20 to 30 sets the pricing would probably halve.
Marks 4wd would specifically cost their products at a point which discourages one from going down the line of manufacturing your own, whilst still making a reasonable profit. Our exchange rate however provides a bit of room to look at it.

In all honesty though one would need at least five sets to make it worth while to investigate.
User avatar
hugejp
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 2052
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 21:01
Full Name: JP Viviers
Nickname: Oupoot
Home Town: JHB
Current 4x4: THE PATROL COLLECTION
2004 4.8 GRX TURBO "Tinkerbell"
2003 TD42T GRX "The Coal Roller"
Home Language: Half & Half
Has thanked: 211 times
Been thanked: 217 times

Re: low range gears

Post by hugejp »

SUBSCRIBED!!!

:thumbup:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You CAN with a NISSAN!

Jy KAN met 'n DATSUN!
User avatar
davidvdm
Patrolman
Patrolman
Posts: 627
Joined: 13 Sep 2011 15:47
Full Name: David vd Merwe
Nickname: David - Hillbilly
Home Town: West Coast
Current 4x4: 1997 2.7TD Nissan Sani Mk3 4x4 SFA (SAFANI)
Home Language: English/Afrikaans
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 48 times
Contact:

Re: low range gears

Post by davidvdm »

How much space is in that box for gear changes. I ask this as the Hardbody crawler gear kit for the TX10 TC, includes instructions to grind part of the inside of the casing away, to make space for the larger gearset to fit in the box. Or has this already been tested by the likes of Marks?

I ran some figures and get a fairly nice crawl speed of 28 meters per minute on 35s at a TC low range of 4.2 with diff ration of 4.88. The downside of course, is that you are now stuck with only that low range ratio, although you can get back to your normal 1st gear LR speed somewhere between 2nd and 3rd gears. These are speeds calculated at 700RPM which I assume is engine idle.

At 3000RPM in 5th gear, you will have just under 500 meters per minute, or 30km/h.

Figures are rough estimates, and based on the Hardbody gearbox, and diff ratios, with TC ratio a combination of the TX10 (2.02) and T100L (2.074) TC's.
If someone can post the Patrols ratios, I can run the figures more accurately at RPM's you may feel more relevant, and what crawl speeds you would like.
David - Bfreesani
1997 Nissan Sani MK3 2.7TD - Hillbilly (SAFANI)
MQ C200 SFA
MQ H260 LSD Rear
MQ Transfer as second low range
5" Lift
33"x12.5x15" tires on 8.5J rims - Want 35's
DIY rock sliders
DIY Snorkel
Madman EMS
User avatar
Bre
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 214
Joined: 08 Mar 2017 11:27
Full Name: Brent Harris
Nickname: Bre
Home Town: Bellville
Current 4x4: 1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5 GRX
2000 Nissan Terrano II 2.7 TDi Sport
2003 Nissan Hardbody 3.3 SEL DC 4x4
Home Language: English
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: low range gears

Post by Bre »

The TX12A in the Patrol is also 2.02 David
User avatar
hugejp
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 2052
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 21:01
Full Name: JP Viviers
Nickname: Oupoot
Home Town: JHB
Current 4x4: THE PATROL COLLECTION
2004 4.8 GRX TURBO "Tinkerbell"
2003 TD42T GRX "The Coal Roller"
Home Language: Half & Half
Has thanked: 211 times
Been thanked: 217 times

Re: low range gears

Post by hugejp »

I am doing a gearbox swop on my diesel, the swop includes the transfer case.

I would be happy to lend you the old transfer for R&D
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You CAN with a NISSAN!

Jy KAN met 'n DATSUN!
Mystical_Beast
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: 26 Sep 2015 23:03
Full Name: Julian Hilder
Nickname: none
Home Town: Edenvale
Current 4x4: 2018 Patrol 4.8 Vortex SuperCharged
2007 RRS 4.4 V8
2004 Colt Rodeo 3000
SIII Landy pick-up
Home Language: English
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: low range gears

Post by Mystical_Beast »

Hi JP

Not sure who your post is directed too..

If you have a transfer box that one can open, it will be as good as 90 % for analysis and costing.

The reduction box would have a larger output gear, dependant on reduction ratio and therefore more teeth, but it will at least provide an indication if it is worth looking at locally.

I would have something to work with .to provide costing
User avatar
hugejp
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 2052
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 21:01
Full Name: JP Viviers
Nickname: Oupoot
Home Town: JHB
Current 4x4: THE PATROL COLLECTION
2004 4.8 GRX TURBO "Tinkerbell"
2003 TD42T GRX "The Coal Roller"
Home Language: Half & Half
Has thanked: 211 times
Been thanked: 217 times

Re: low range gears

Post by hugejp »

I am happy to let you open it!

As soon as my swop is done, I have been contemplating importing gears for while now so if this helps get a local option I am all in!!!

:thumbup:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You CAN with a NISSAN!

Jy KAN met 'n DATSUN!
Mystical_Beast
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: 26 Sep 2015 23:03
Full Name: Julian Hilder
Nickname: none
Home Town: Edenvale
Current 4x4: 2018 Patrol 4.8 Vortex SuperCharged
2007 RRS 4.4 V8
2004 Colt Rodeo 3000
SIII Landy pick-up
Home Language: English
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: low range gears

Post by Mystical_Beast »

That will be great

I could let our factory look at it, I will do material analysis on the gears, just to check that its not some exotic that we would not ordinarily use.

Normally material would be EN36B Case Hardened, I’d like to confirm.

Other Option are a High Chrome Nickel Steel like EN 19 which I feel would be better.
This you can harden the core to create toughness and then finally do a fairly deep plasma ion nitride on the surface for hardness, which will last forever.

I don’t like case hardening small tooth profiles as a rule as you can only provide a shallow case, but it may be suitable.

Would like to see what the original gears are made of and what hardness they are.

That will point the way ..
User avatar
davidvdm
Patrolman
Patrolman
Posts: 627
Joined: 13 Sep 2011 15:47
Full Name: David vd Merwe
Nickname: David - Hillbilly
Home Town: West Coast
Current 4x4: 1997 2.7TD Nissan Sani Mk3 4x4 SFA (SAFANI)
Home Language: English/Afrikaans
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 48 times
Contact:

Re: low range gears

Post by davidvdm »

Bre wrote:The TX12A in the Patrol is also 2.02 David
Thanks Bre. Can someone give me gear ratios 1st - 5th gears, and diff ratio as well. What size tyres are most people running. I am guessing 33's

What ratio would the guys be looking at for the new crawler gearing.

My question is still, crawler gears are nice, but does it work all the time? Will it not be too low for some obstacles.
David - Bfreesani
1997 Nissan Sani MK3 2.7TD - Hillbilly (SAFANI)
MQ C200 SFA
MQ H260 LSD Rear
MQ Transfer as second low range
5" Lift
33"x12.5x15" tires on 8.5J rims - Want 35's
DIY rock sliders
DIY Snorkel
Madman EMS
User avatar
SJC
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 3188
Joined: 23 Nov 2014 14:20
Full Name: SJC
Nickname: Fanus
Home Town: Nelspruit
Current 4x4: Patrol 4.2 SGL
Home Language: Afrikaans/English
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 171 times

Re: low range gears

Post by SJC »

Ek sien die "reduction/low range gears" wat marks4wd verkoop is as volg:
24% - 2.484:1 Reduction
43% - 2.86:1 Reduction
85% - 3.743:1 Reduction
Ek neem aan dat indien die ratio te laag is sal mens 2de in plaas van 1ste gebruik, of 3de in plaas van 2de? :think:

Patrol diff ratios:
GQ 2.8 Diesel = 4.625:1
GQ 3.0 Petrol = 4.11:1
GQ 4.2 Petrol auto = 3.9:1
GQ 4.2 Petrol manual = 4.11:1 or 3.9:1
GQ 4.2 Diesel = 4.11:1
GU 2.8 Diesel = 4.625:1
GU 3.0 Turbo diesel auto = 4.375:1
GU 3.0 Turbo diesel manual= 4.11:1
GU 4.2 Diesel = 4.11:1
GU 4.2 Turbo diesel (wagon) = 3.9:1
GU 4.2 Turbo diesel (ute) = 4.11:1
GU 4.5 Petrol = 4.11:1
GU 4.8 Petrol manual = 4.375:1
GU 4.8 Petrol auto = 3.54:1

Patrol transmission/gear ratios:
specs.jpg
specs.jpg (72.46 KiB) Viewed 7222 times
‘96 GQ 4.2 SGL
‘01 GU 4.5 GRX
‘08 GU TD42 BAKKIE
Post Reply

Return to “10. Drivetrain”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests