Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Transmissions, Transfer Boxes, Axles, Drive Shafts
Tim
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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Tim » 20 Aug 2013 10:49

Gents forgive me if I step on toes here, but I am going to reply to a couple of things here, some is speculative and some with credit, just to remove confusion.

Interesting. Why is the thing chain driven and how robust is that setup?
Weight, space and efficiency is the major factors here. weighs less than gears, space is not an issue, most effective method to transfer power with minimum losses.

Turns out its normal with HD clutch and this is consistent with all talking to people in Australia on the matter.
There is a very few if not none that work on their own TC at all. Most of those who went for the reduction gear conversion that claims " I made or installed the reduction gears" probably had it done by a gearbox shop. From all my extensive research I have found very little ACCURATE info on the inside of the TC, how to assemble, disassemble and you name it. All mention a strange noise and a rattle and a this or that, but nothing concrete. Does not make logical sense to me why the TC would generate a noise because of a clutch. I believe a choice of oil in the TC plays a role here.

The nissan chain is apparently triple linked and very robust.
It looks like a bike chain with the difference it does not run over sprockets and it is 60mm wide, it is a gear chain and triple linked does not say much except that it will not be able to bend over the link hinge pins. It is very robust though.

My bet is that using 4Wd on a hard surface and shocking loading during "wheel in the air" off road work really strains the chain. That said, its one heck of a chain!
For sure, specially if you have a front diff lock, the chain will take extreme strain, so will the bearings which is somewhat on the small side. Wind up is your danger here.

But it would seem to me to make sense if the dogs are arranged in order to favor changing from low to high.
Hmm yes and no with reference to pictures one and two, see the difference. I like the stuff you make though.

Thanks to CLUNK (Aus forum) and DAVID for their valuable supply of info.
My TC will go back in soon.

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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Peter Connan » 20 Aug 2013 17:48

Tim, no offence on my part, although it is tricky to see from your photos how the setup works.

But sinc you ar getting ready to re-assemble, what is the answer?

And do you have any advic WRT getting all the shavings out of the box? Can one fiddle around there with a magnet?
Mag ons ons kenniskry met lekkerkry aanhoukry.

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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Russ Kellermann » 20 Aug 2013 19:46

Tim wrote:Gents forgive me if I step on toes here, but I am going to reply to a couple of things here, some is speculative and some with credit, just to remove confusion.


Turns out its normal with HD clutch and this is consistent with all talking to people in Australia on the matter.
There is a very few if not none that work on their own TC at all. Most of those who went for the reduction gear conversion that claims " I made or installed the reduction gears" probably had it done by a gearbox shop. From all my extensive research I have found very little ACCURATE info on the inside of the TC, how to assemble, disassemble and you name it. All mention a strange noise and a rattle and a this or that, but nothing concrete. Does not make logical sense to me why the TC would generate a noise because of a clutch. I believe a choice of oil in the TC plays a role here.
Hey Tim, no toes stepped on dont worry!
Just to make clear though, my comments on noise/rumble was not aimed at TC, i merely stated that as you had mentioned noise from YOUR TC and i wanted to warn you that it may be from something else in the driveline, like mine was. The rumble is actually harmonic resonance created in the relationship between TD42 motor, Main Box, and HD clutch springs...

There is plenty of literature in this regard, mostly Australian however, and mine was very in-keeping with their common findings.

Im glad you sorted your TC out and gave all of us a better understanding of matters, shot!
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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Tim » 20 Aug 2013 20:39

Hi Peter
It is going to be very difficult to get into the box to remove any filings and the magnet will probably get stuck to a gear before any success of removing filings.

Yes i suppose it needs explanation to what is going on in the pics One pictures shows the selector ring/coupler. If you look at the top of those tooth you will see that it is slightly pointed and has a slightly larger area on one side compared to the other and what I refer to as pitch. The other pic is the TC main gear with two sets of gears, the large diagonal gears and the the small dogs. The selector slides over the dogs almost like a free wheel hub. The difference is that if you get the ring turned over the wrong side to couple with the main gear dogs you may damage those dogs. I need to figure out how the ring and main match and I did, by flipping a coin.

I f-ed up today, had the Tc reassembled and took a wild chance to keep cost down by keeping the counter gear in instead of replacing it. I inspected it and since the dog that broke off from the main gear ended up in V of the main gear itself and the counter gear. It was very very slightly damaged and I installed the TC today just to find that it sounds like I have a running 50cc two stroke engine buried in the TC. I'm seriously pissed off with myself. Build it out immediately again. That thing weighs 65 kgs. Not fun if handled by hand only. The counter gear will cost another R3500.00

Thanks Russ I take note, What you mentioned has a lot of truth in it over the entire drive train. It has been recorded that the clutch springs on the dielsels differ from those in the clutch of the petrol. By installing the one in the other will have undesirable comfort wrt vibration through out the drive train. There is however a couple of uniquely suspicious sounds transmitted by a TC that has its own signature, of trouble. QQQ

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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Russ Kellermann » 21 Aug 2013 09:38

Tim,the fact that you tackled the problem yourself and learned this much is incredible, keep going bud, almost there. Knowing what your problem is there is most of the battle im sure. Imagine how much money you saved by doing the job yourself, ..and the best part is, that you know when its done that it was done properly, no bullshit talk from the mechanic who said they did this and that but didn't (note: Not all mechanics are like this, in fact this has only ever happened to me with Nissan Mechanics - just for the record.)

Good luck mate!
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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Tim » 21 Aug 2013 16:29

Thanks Russ

That is pritty much my stance at the moment. It is certainly a money saving issue (now that Nissan is in the picture) on the part of labor and quality assurance with knowledge.
The following is going to be a bit off topic
I think I did mention somewhere that i had a 4.2 LC VX 100 td. Had it serviced at what used to be Ritters Toyota now Indongo Toyota and it was literally a day after the service that the alternator failed, and I had not had the time to do the work myself. Send it back to them to check it out and they replaced it, but forgot to re-fill the radiator with water as they had to remove the bottom hose. 20kms later six blown pistons stuck in the cylinders. They removed the engine and screwed up a wire to the spill control valve on the diesel pump. The MD phoned me to tell me the pump is done and need to be replaced @ 35K. where it should be 22K. Strangely within 15 mins they managed to send the pump off to another very crooked and contracted diesel workshop after I told him I'm there in 15 mins to pick the pump up for a second opinion. Once at the diesel workshop the pump was now where to be found but they received it and took it apart and told me the rotor and head failed. The new pump failed in the same manner as the old one because they ( Toyota NASA JPL rocket engineers ) never use the FSM to trouble shoot and test the pump electronics and valve values. Then the water cooled turbo failed and then the air intake preheater failed and then the torque converter. All due to overheating. Cost to me R 150K. They argue their point as if the customer is the idiot and they hook, crook, deceive and steal from clients all the time. Uneducated, incompetent cheap labor abusing arses. And so is the low budget non certified sub contractors they use.
I told them all that, no wonder they nailed me with that amount. The diesel mechanic left town with his name carved in 150gr of copper around lead. As consumer here, we have no foot to stand on, no consumer protection board or a 'fair trade' and these guys know it and exploit that short coming in our system apart from the fact that they are hand om die bal with every lawyer (because he wants to drive a LC too) if the customer decides to take them to court. I know of at least four other toyota owners that suffered serious mechanical failure after a service from these chaps. I say, what is wrong with the value of the paper I'm paying with and why dont I get that same value for that money in return if they make the price.
Parts and services is what carries toyota and Nissan today not sales of vehicles where it was the opposite a couple of years ago, apart from that Nissan parts tend to be much cheaper than toyota parts.

So in principle I do things myself. If I screw up it is on me as well as for the success.

Nissan here is not much better. When I started getting quotes for the gears, they told me to replace the TC because the gears is not available as replacement parts. I had the quote in my hand and wanted to verify the prices as they differ every time. The quote varied for OEM fender flares between 35k and 45k. Massive difference between 45K (new TC) and R 7200 for gears which is already over the top.
Main gear = R 2300
Counter gear = R 4900
Single pilot needle bearing R 1250/ from BMG = R 246 = 508% higher price at Nissan
Another needle bearing R 633/ from BMG = R 122 = 518% higher price at Nissan

They grab you by the nuts,wrench it, squeeze it, slam it, pinch it and cut it off then they turn you around and BF you as a 'thank you for your support we know you dont have an option'. Leave a bitter taste in your mouth. And no wonder the dont get the crap sold here in Africa minus the UN.
Last edited by Tim on 21 Aug 2013 17:34, edited 2 times in total.

Tim
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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Tim » 21 Aug 2013 17:12

So back to what it is all about. I took my chances and was aware of the potential dangers and I did keep that counter gear in the box, sealed it up and installed the piece of junk back into the car with undesirable results. Not the kind that would keep you stuck in the Kaoko land but the kind that makes my car now sound like an annoying gyro copter.
So I pulled the TC again and opened it up. On a much closer inspection as before I found that one of the diagonal gears on the counter gear was bend, almost un-noticeable. What happened: When the previous owner (american UN official) slammed the transfer gear lever back from 4L through TC neutral to 4H likely on the move and a dog broke off from the main gear and this little dog first ended up between the diagonal gears which squashed it and bend the tooth and then secondly it end up in the V in the main gear after which it was now hammered to a nice little triangular shaped piece of metal obstruction by the still revolving counter gear. This caused a hammering effect which hammered the bearings and your ears. By replacing the main gear and all the bearings I thought my problems stopped, aware of the little dent in the counter gear but unaware of that slightly bend tooth on the counter gear. Big problems more noise. Penny wise pound foolish as they say. No new damage though. Waiting on parts from the stealers.

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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Ross » 21 Aug 2013 17:47

Eish Tim,

Sorry to hear of the on-going troubles! Many thanks for sharing your experiences though, I have learnt a lot through your posts on this thread.

Hope your parts arrive soon, and that you get back up and running without further drama.

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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Tim » 26 Aug 2013 00:07

Received the Tc counter gear from the stealers on Friday. That was not a pleasant visit at the price. Never the less I checked the gear right there and complained about the rusty main gear that I got from them a week before. Manager tells me it is because it comes from Japan. I would hope it does but just in a better condition. Then probably the most important part of all, a small bearing ID 35 OD 45 W 25 "the main gear pilot bearing". I managed to source a single piece bearing instead of using the two half moon bearings and which is in my opinion is good reason for a audible tapping sound, and possible rapid gear and bearing wear. Cleaned off all the old gasket maker and installed the MGPB as well as the counter gear after salvaging my bearings from the old one. Assembled the whole toot, left it for a day to give the new gasket seal to set and filled it with about 4,5 liters of ATF. Installed it back into the car in 15 minutes and it is running as smooth as if it does not even exist. All shiftings 2H 4H N 4L is better than new at a total cost of around R 10000.

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Re: Transfer Case Assembly Procedure

Post by Clem » 26 Aug 2013 07:28

Tim, excellent! Thank you so much for the detailed reports.

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