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Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby ricster » 17 May 2017 09:30

Without wanting to start a diesel vs petrol debate.... :biggrin: .... on sand dunes the auto petrol is the king of kings, but struggles in comparison on the very rocky trails to what a manual diesel will do. But having said that, I think even though an auto diesel will "possibly" perform better over very rocky terrain than an auto petrol, and there would be very similar throttle control issues that time and practice will eventually overcome.

Between a 4.5 ( or 4.8 ) manual and a diesel manual over very rocky terrain is also quite evident as the diesel will less likely stall as it climbs over rocks which means less throttle feathering, where as on the petrol one can often hear the motor reving up and down as it climbs up and over the obstacle. In a nutshell, Petrol motors kick ass in sand and dunes, and the diesels kick ass on the big rocks. Auto gearboxes kick ass on the sand and dunes, and manual gearboxes kick ass on the big rocks.
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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby SJC » 17 May 2017 10:00

graham1 wrote:
Rhett wrote:
George, the tyre pressures were around 2bar I think, I must double check again - but basically they were so hard I havent inflated them again since the trail. :lol:

:surprised: :surprised: :surprised: no wonder you battled...
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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby Peter Connan » 18 May 2017 06:02

ricster wrote:
Between a 4.5 ( or 4.8 ) manual and a diesel manual over very rocky terrain is also quite evident as the diesel will less likely stall as it climbs over rocks which means less throttle feathering, where as on the petrol one can often hear the motor reving up and down as it climbs up and over the obstacle. In a nutshell, Petrol motors kick ass in sand and dunes, and the diesels kick ass on the big rocks. Auto gearboxes kick ass on the sand and dunes, and manual gearboxes kick ass on the big rocks.


I still disagree with this. After having driven Grant's 'trol at Groenkloof a few years ago, and both Tinus's bakkie and Michael's car up the big hill at the back of Hennops last time we were there, I still think a manual petrol (well, my 4.5 anyway) is easier to control in these situations.

The reason is turbo lag, which the petrols don't have. It happens at exactly the speeds I want to be doing these obstacles at.
I must also say that there was a big difference between Tinus's bakkie and Michael's car, with Michael's being much more linear. But still not as good in the range of 800-1200rpm as my petrol.

But, back when Grant and I swopped cars, he stalled mine three times, and I stalled his three times. So I guess one develops a feeling for your own car.
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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby Michael » 18 May 2017 07:07

Well just to give my 2 cents, when it comes to trails and obstacles the TD42 whether its a turbo or not does not really matter as the turbo only comes into play around 1,300rpm and I never see that rev ranges on obstacles.
I can hold my Patrol in one spot with clutch control only and without touching the accelerator on a very steep incline. (not sure if the 4.5 can also do this?)

I have never driven a manual 4.5 so can't really say, but it is true that the carburetor vs fuel injection is completely different when it comes to throttle response. Peter I have seen your car in action many times and have also seen it wheelspin in one spot without you touching the accelerator so yours is definitely different.

Onne thing to keep in mind is that everyone learns the characteristics of their own vehicle and no one will be able to drive the vehicle as good as its owner, so that plays a major role as well.

Dune driving......well there are many factors that play a role here and I don't think it comes down to auto is always better and petrol will always win. I have managed to do better than the 4.8 AT Patrols on the Dunes trip so there is always an exception. BUT I do agree that in GENERAL petrol will do better in the sand as will AT.
Facts are that manual shifting will always be slower than AT shifting and on the dunes, it was very clear how much momentum you loose when shifting down.

Hope we are not starting a battle here :lol:
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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby SJC » 18 May 2017 11:06

I got both 4.2td and 4.5. and cannot fault the 4.5's throttle control.
The 4.2 is my daily drive, but can easily crawl over rocks up steep rocky inclines with the 4.5 without much wheelspin...

True the 4.2 can move forward without having to touch the accelerator in a lot of situations. (mine can pull off in second gear without touching the accelerator)
But I think because of this, regular diesel drivers might have to adjust their driving style a little bit when behind the steering wheel of a petrol..

4.5 in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-DfcZN ... e=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrpZu6gKxRY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnKoH8vhwkY
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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby Alex Roux » 18 May 2017 12:00

SJC wrote:I got both 4.2td and 4.5. and cannot fault the 4.5's throttle control.
The 4.2 is my daily drive, but can easily crawl over rocks up steep rocky inclines with the 4.5 without much wheelspin...



Yes, Fanus I know.
But I guess we all have to learn to accept and love people like Cedric unconditionally! We know his biases, and still accept him! :rolling: :rolling:
In my V8 I have never spun the wheels on rocks unless I wanted to.
And the only times I lacked torque was when the fuel pump started to play up.
It might be easier to approach an obstacle with a 4.2 diesel, but then it also easier to do it with an autobox.
And easier is not necessarily more fun.
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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby ricster » 18 May 2017 12:18

HAHAHAHA..... I really feel so loved ..... :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby andredurand » 18 May 2017 17:36

ricster wrote:HAHAHAHA..... I really feel so loved ..... :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Jy beter want ons bly in Alberton :blonde: :blonde:
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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby Jorrie » 18 May 2017 22:37

I just love all this banter!!
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Re: Dewildt trail - some pics etc from the weekend

Postby davidvdm » 19 May 2017 08:24

And how does all this throttle control work out when you don't have the luxury/power of a 4.?? Litre engine, diesel or petrol, but rather are stuck with a 2,7TD. I actually can't say I have ever wanted more power, or pulled the engine dead on an obstacle. I will be scoring big time with the 4,2:1 TC ratio with torque and crawling, but takes momentum out of the equation totally. I mean, how do you build up any momentum with a speed of 26 meters per minute in first low low (yes that second low is supposed to be there :blonde:... 2 x TC's, both in low ).

Gees I need to get my rig on the road, I'm turning into a real keyboard worrier :rolling: .
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