Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

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Russ Kellermann
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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by Russ Kellermann » 23 Feb 2015 08:43

If you want 255's - order from Johan Viljoen at First Alignment Centre, Cape Town. He gets a container of them a few times a year. He will only sell you BFG in this size and cost will be about R3800 per tyre, but price you must confirm with him, DO NOT QUOTE me on this pls.

If you looking for 285's but not as expensive as BFG, then i would opt for Kumho KL71's. Epic tyre. Alot Cheaper, but VERY good. 2 Ply sidewall isn't my cup of tea tho, but they are an animal offroad.
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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by ricster » 23 Feb 2015 10:08

Side walls may be only 2 ply.... but I abused my Kumho KL 71's on some rough rocks over the years and never had any nonsense !!... but choosing a set of tyres is like guys looking at woman.... each has their own preferences and opinions... :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Russ Kellermann
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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by Russ Kellermann » 23 Feb 2015 11:15

Absolutely Ricster. :thumbup:
'07 Patrol Pickup TD42 N/A,285's KM2,3" Lift,ONCA Bars,Warn High Mount,Alu Canopy, and some other Stuff.

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Russ Kellermann
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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by Russ Kellermann » 23 Feb 2015 12:16

285's on my pickup running stock Patrol Pickup Heavy duty steel rims (they are very strong/heavy rims) 16" and 6.5j with (0) Offset.
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'07 Patrol Pickup TD42 N/A,285's KM2,3" Lift,ONCA Bars,Warn High Mount,Alu Canopy, and some other Stuff.

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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by ricster » 23 Feb 2015 14:08

Russ, I'm going to throw a spanner in the works here, and please correct me if I'm wrong.....

Your patrol is quite kitted out at the back, so you have a bit of weight there. The BF's are a harder compound, giving the good mileage, but in wet I have been led to believe that they are not the greatest ( I'm not knocking the BF's ) compared to a softer compound. So on the Patrol station wagon, the extra weight possibly gets the harder rubber to bite onto the tar. With a light or empty load bin on the Patrol pick up, I would think that a softer compound will give you the road holding or stop the rear kicking out as easily if you push a bit hard into a corner, or even under heavy breaking. Granted braking is split 60/40 but that 40 makes a huge difference in stopping a vehicle quickly in an emergency ( and as we know our 4.2 diesels aren't really as slow as Tinus or IanT thinks..... :lol: :lol: .... But consider traveling at 80Km/h on a gentle left or right hand bend on a tar road with an empty load bin and on the left side of the road, after a rain storm you hit a puddle with you front wheels. Due to the weight the tyre should push through ( depth of puddle dependent )When the rear tyre with little or no weight on it hits the same puddle there will probably be some aquaplaning, and this is the driving wheels !! If the vehicle is still going around a bend the back is going to step out like Hannes Grobbler made his Safari step out on rally stages..... just we don't necessarily have his experience to handle it and correct it.

I'm going to use the Kumhos as an example... purely because I have had them on my Patrol, and compare them to the Bighorn Maxxis I currently have on now. The Kumho KL 71's have such an aggressive tread pattern, with massive gaps for water to pass through that the only time I got some aquaplane action was when the tyres were on their last legs and really needed to be retired. the Maxxis ( also 33" ) are about 50% and have given me a few aqua planing moments already at this stage. Yes the compound is harder and the tread pattern is "similar" to the BF's which are also "similar" to the Bridgestones. So I think tread pattern plays a huge role as well as compound.

The Kumho's also have their faults..... They are very noisy, there lifespan is not going to be as long. I got about ( can't recall exactly )65 000km on a set that got PUNISHED every month on some rough trails with very rocky terrain. bashed its way through snow, ice, mud, sand ( Atlantis Dunes and LOADS in Mozambique ). I am also not the lightest on the power pedal, and have no fear into a corner ( especially when there is a chance I can scare the crap out of a taxi :lol: :lol: ). I also do a majority of stop start driving with loads of left and right turns. This chowed the rubber up.... the Kumho's actually grip too much.

I think what one loads, how often one loads it up to the max, the road conditions, and ones driving style all influences which tyre will work the best.
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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by Peter Connan » 23 Feb 2015 17:05

Cedric, remember that if there is less weight on the tires, there is also less weight trying to break traction. And it's a direct relationship.

So, all other things being equal, the reduction in traction due to a reduction in weight is offset exactly by the fact that less traction is required, due to the vehicle being lighter. Hope that makes sense?

The issue of course is that all things are never equal.

Specifically, the shocks and to a lesser extent the springs need to be tailored to the load, and this is typically where pickups struggle, because there is a much bigger difference (in percentage terms) between empty and full than with an SUV. This is also the reason why SUV's are generally much more comfortable than pickups.

So while I am not arguing about which tire has more or less grip in the wet, what I am saying is that a specific tire should have pretty much the same handling irrespective of how heavily loaded the vehicle is, IF THE SUSPENSION KEEPS THAT TIRE ON THE ROAD PROPERLY. If not, all the bets are off.
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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by SJC » 23 Feb 2015 20:00

Russ Kellermann wrote:285's on my pickup running stock Patrol Pickup Heavy duty steel rims (they are very strong/heavy rims) 16" and 6.5j with (0) Offset.
I would never have thought, looking at these pics, that those are 285/75's, they dont look that wide at all... Suppose the 255's would look even thinner then. That size does look good on the patrol. Where can i get the best prices on bfg's?

I thought that the standard patrol rims had a negative offset.

Ricster what are you then sugesting, wrt best (wet road gripping) tyres for a patrol pickup? Are you saying kumho is the way to go?

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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by Russ Kellermann » 23 Feb 2015 22:07

Conans answer is very accurate.

Here's my take on what i have owned and what i know as fact based on hard evidence.

Whilst i have owned 2 sets of KL71's , i must admit they were not on the Patrol.
They do have very soft compound and even tho they have poor siping i still found them very good on wet tar and only at the end of their life did they try and take mine... and thats when i threw them out.

The BGf may be deemed to have a harder comound but i do believe the technology of the tyre/ the rubber/ the casings/the wall strength and everything else that went into the R&D of the KM2 has been proven time and time again, certainly in my case it has.

Contrary to belief , the weight in the rear of my patrol is not always that much, ... in fact, even though my Alu Canopy and Alu roof rack is seriously over engineered, it still weighs almost the exact same weight as the tripple roll bar that comes as standard on the Safari Edition, which i removed of course.

My typical work week dictates that one day i have NOTHING in the rear, the next day full of tools at over 650kg the next day a 2 chairs in the back and a 2 ton trailer full of stuff,... so i dont always have the luxury of packing the best way, if you kmow what i mean...

I work all year round in CT and my work could mean shopping mall run in the morning, atlantis dunes/franschoek mountains at lunch time in Low Range, and then speeding back to clifton for a sun set shot.... and the patrol has to be able to deal with any condition in any weather..

I have never ever felt unsure about the patrol when considering tyres. The BFG seem to handle the huge difference in weight over varied weather and surface changes with effotless ease, and i find them hugely grippy in the wet, in fact it is very difficult to spin them. Partly due i reckon to the mild power of the TD42 N/A, and partly due to the Limited Slip Diff which quickly catches any spin whilst corning,..this i have tested on occasion on gravel as it is very difficult to spin any tire on a corner on a sealed surface even during a down pour...I suppose the HUGE unsprung weight of the pickup (Massive rear full floating axle and H260 Diff, and even the spring packs - mine weight about 60kg each...), together with my over-built ONCA rear bar.

Yes, the pickup is hellova bouncy with no load, particularly cause i have 400kg constant load XGS spring packs in the rear... but when loaded it feels extremely comfortable, and seems to handle at its best when there is about 250 - 750 kg in the rear.

NOTE: all tyres were differently, even an identical car with identical tyres will have a different end result. This is due to many variables:

Road surfaces
Driver style
Engin output
Diff Type
amongst others,... but it has a alot to do with the Heat Cycles. I do alot of stop start trips during each day, which means heating and cooling of tyres. This cures tyres and hardens them faster then a guy who drives only on weekends, or long trips. His tyres retain their flaccid characteristics of the lugs and thus tend to wear / chip far quicker.

This is a thoery of mine and is open to discussion without persecution. its just what ive seen and experienced myself...
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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by Tinus lotz » 24 Feb 2015 07:08

Russ great write up...
Km2 are great as long as you rotate them every 5 000 to me good enough in wet and dry...
i cant comment on the kummos all i can say is i need more km for my money. ...to me the stmaxx seems to be a good tire to go for with its good sidewall and good pattern. ..mabe mr boegman can give more info he has them on his test rigs and thats really working them to the limits
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Re: Patrol Pickup 4.2D Tyres......advice?!

Post by ricster » 24 Feb 2015 08:25

I think you guys have given some very good valid and unbiased info !!

Fanus, at the end of the day I believe that there are no right or wrong choices of tyres. Everyone will have opinions and ideas about tyres. Like what has been said here, we have tried to give some advice on how we feel and think about the tyres we use and I respect 100% what Russ and Peter have said, because they have given valid generalized info on what works for them, as did I.

So.... which ever tyre you choose, you will enjoy the good that you get out of that tyre.

The only tyre I really hope you DON'T put on is a Dunlop........ :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: .... want dunlop hy hier and dunlop hy daar.....
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