Dual battery systems
- Jules
- Patrolman 1000+
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- Joined: 08 Apr 2009 09:13
- Full Name: Julius
- Nickname: Jules
- Home Town: Rietjiesvlei, Zoeloeland
- Current 4x4: Pathfinder
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Dual battery systems
Good middag all
Firstly WELL DONE SHARKS, GREAT GAME OF RUGBY
1)Who has dual battery systems in their Patrol ?
2) Is it removeable ? if Yes what system ( NL, PBE,TMAX etc )
3) Why did you chose your system
4) Is a removeable system better than a fixed one?
Peter Connan as jy wil kan jy weer jou systeem hier verduidelik anders sal ek met jou toestemming copy en paste.
As I see it there is basically two systems NL and PBE that fits my needs ( removeable ) but my question is whether the removeable is the way to go? I presume it will be more costly than a fixed system.
Shalom
Jules
Ek sit hieronder die antwoord wat ek van PBE gekry het binne een uur nadat ek hul via hul webtuiste navraag gedoen het GREAT SERVICE sal ek sê
Hi Julius
Die volledige dubbel battery sisteem , met staal battery boks, 105a deep siklus battery ens vir D.I.Y is R4995.00 versendings koste
uitgesluit. Hier word alles wat u benodig pre-assemble aan u verskaf. Hiermee gaan u nie eens nodig hè om u yskas te ontkoppel nie.
Ek stuur ‘n skrywe van een van ons mees onlangse kliente aan.
Besoek gerus ons web, www.pbeproducts.co.za vir meer inligting of skakel ons vir enige navrae.
Dankie vir u navrae
Groete
Ellen –(PBE, CENTURION)
Firstly WELL DONE SHARKS, GREAT GAME OF RUGBY
1)Who has dual battery systems in their Patrol ?
2) Is it removeable ? if Yes what system ( NL, PBE,TMAX etc )
3) Why did you chose your system
4) Is a removeable system better than a fixed one?
Peter Connan as jy wil kan jy weer jou systeem hier verduidelik anders sal ek met jou toestemming copy en paste.
As I see it there is basically two systems NL and PBE that fits my needs ( removeable ) but my question is whether the removeable is the way to go? I presume it will be more costly than a fixed system.
Shalom
Jules
Ek sit hieronder die antwoord wat ek van PBE gekry het binne een uur nadat ek hul via hul webtuiste navraag gedoen het GREAT SERVICE sal ek sê
Hi Julius
Die volledige dubbel battery sisteem , met staal battery boks, 105a deep siklus battery ens vir D.I.Y is R4995.00 versendings koste
uitgesluit. Hier word alles wat u benodig pre-assemble aan u verskaf. Hiermee gaan u nie eens nodig hè om u yskas te ontkoppel nie.
Ek stuur ‘n skrywe van een van ons mees onlangse kliente aan.
Besoek gerus ons web, www.pbeproducts.co.za vir meer inligting of skakel ons vir enige navrae.
Dankie vir u navrae
Groete
Ellen –(PBE, CENTURION)
Walk by FAITH not by sight
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- Peter Connan
- Moderator
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Re: Dual battery systems
Hello Jules, Lady and Gentlemen
I am going to give you guys a shortened version of the experience I have with dual battery systems. Unfortunately this is still quite a story, so build yourself some coffee, because if you take a beer you will not be able to understand by the end . Jules I have added some more info as I have had a chance to think about this some more (I am slow, but i get somewhere in the end)
The overlanding/camping/4x4 bug bit my father and I only a couple of years ago, when my dad was in the process of planning his life after retirement. After a lot of research my dad decided on a Hilux bakkie with a removable camper on the back. This came with a National Luna battery box built into the camper. Before we started modifying this drove 2 external and two internal lights, of the long-life variety, and the water pump. We then added the National Luna Weekender 55l fridge-freezer combo, an LED strip light, a 2000W inverter and a 220V charger with an external plug for charging at campsites with power. I then took it on a 10-day holiday to Moz. Although it was December, it rained virtually the whole time and therefore it was not all that hot and we had mains power for about 6 hours every day, but despite me being very carefull with the fridge it was a constant battle to keep the fridge running. While driving back we carried out a number of tests to try and dteremine what the problem was (one of the guys in the party was an electrician) and we discovered that the alternator's output was reducing when it got hot.
We fixed that problem but the system still battles to cope. We have since also installed a cabin monitor so that the operator at least knows what is going on.
Some time thereafter I managed to scrape together enough cash to buy my Patrol. When I got it this came fitted with a home-made dual battery system consisting of a bracket in the engine bay containing a 105A/h battery and the same solenoid used by National Luna, but without the 5-minute delay.
I used this system as-is for a while, but it was not satisfactory. Firstly it battled to keep the battery charged, and then it also destroyed the battery by overheating it. This happens because there is no control over the maximum charging rate and therefore when the battery is very flat it will draw a lot of amps, which a deep-cycle battery doesn't like.
I then replaced the battery and at the same time replaced the charging system with a PBE system, but without the box. This system does not have a solenoid and also has an overcharge protection mechanism. The power is used for the following appliances: a 60l Snomaster fridge-freezer combo, a 400W inverter, a multi-lighter plug driving the GPS etc. and three strip lights in my tents.
In July this year we all went on a two-week trip to Botswana. We had four vehicles, but only two fridges. We used my dad's as a fridge, set at +5degrees, and mine as the freezer, set at -5degrees. Overnight temperatures fell low enough that my dad's fridge did not need to run most nights. We never used my dad's inverter, while mine was used often for charging cammera batteries and operating the laptop (used as storage for the more than 1400 photos we took and for route planning). Despite this my battery's voltage never dropped below 12.5 Volts, while my father's seldom reached that figure.
Fortunately I had my multimeter, so we could conduct some tests. I believe the main reason for the difference in performance is the following: When charging, the voltage in both my batteries is between 13.5 and 13.8 Volts (this is measured at the battery) while my father's system has approximately the same voltage at the car's baatery but only between 12.7 and 12.9 Volt at the second battery. This means that my battery gets about 30 Amps, while my dad's only gets about 10-13 Amps. In other words, because of the voltage drops present in my Dad's system, his battery charges at less than half the rate that mine does. Note that these figures were measured in the early morning, and the situation gets even worse as the batteries get fuller. This is because a battery is only full at 12.5Volt or more, and the charging rate is determined by the difference in the voltage between the battery and the charging system.
The technical reasons for my dad's voltage drop are as follows:
1) The Cole-Hershee solenoid deteriorates over time and creates a drop. (some sources say as much as 1 Volt)
2) The wiring in my dad's system is much longer than mine, however on the flip side it is much heavier, 40mm^2 as opposed to 10mm^2
3) My dad's system has two plug connections (Brad Harrisons), while mine only has one (the fuse).
Before our trip we installed a PBE charging system in one of the other cars, but without any drains. This was done because we expected to have power issues and we wanted a backup. At one point we swopped the battery from this system with the one in my dad's system. When we stopped after 3 hour's driving, the battery was fully charged.
As a footnote I have to say the following:
1) I have received excellent service from PBE. On one occasion I thought my system was faulty, and Pieter Snr spent an hour checking my system on a wednesday night, without charging me a cent.
2) My dad has similarly received excellent service from National Luna
3) I have no knowledge on any other systems than those described here, but I will never install a system using a solenoid again.
Cheers
Peter
I am going to give you guys a shortened version of the experience I have with dual battery systems. Unfortunately this is still quite a story, so build yourself some coffee, because if you take a beer you will not be able to understand by the end . Jules I have added some more info as I have had a chance to think about this some more (I am slow, but i get somewhere in the end)
The overlanding/camping/4x4 bug bit my father and I only a couple of years ago, when my dad was in the process of planning his life after retirement. After a lot of research my dad decided on a Hilux bakkie with a removable camper on the back. This came with a National Luna battery box built into the camper. Before we started modifying this drove 2 external and two internal lights, of the long-life variety, and the water pump. We then added the National Luna Weekender 55l fridge-freezer combo, an LED strip light, a 2000W inverter and a 220V charger with an external plug for charging at campsites with power. I then took it on a 10-day holiday to Moz. Although it was December, it rained virtually the whole time and therefore it was not all that hot and we had mains power for about 6 hours every day, but despite me being very carefull with the fridge it was a constant battle to keep the fridge running. While driving back we carried out a number of tests to try and dteremine what the problem was (one of the guys in the party was an electrician) and we discovered that the alternator's output was reducing when it got hot.
We fixed that problem but the system still battles to cope. We have since also installed a cabin monitor so that the operator at least knows what is going on.
Some time thereafter I managed to scrape together enough cash to buy my Patrol. When I got it this came fitted with a home-made dual battery system consisting of a bracket in the engine bay containing a 105A/h battery and the same solenoid used by National Luna, but without the 5-minute delay.
I used this system as-is for a while, but it was not satisfactory. Firstly it battled to keep the battery charged, and then it also destroyed the battery by overheating it. This happens because there is no control over the maximum charging rate and therefore when the battery is very flat it will draw a lot of amps, which a deep-cycle battery doesn't like.
I then replaced the battery and at the same time replaced the charging system with a PBE system, but without the box. This system does not have a solenoid and also has an overcharge protection mechanism. The power is used for the following appliances: a 60l Snomaster fridge-freezer combo, a 400W inverter, a multi-lighter plug driving the GPS etc. and three strip lights in my tents.
In July this year we all went on a two-week trip to Botswana. We had four vehicles, but only two fridges. We used my dad's as a fridge, set at +5degrees, and mine as the freezer, set at -5degrees. Overnight temperatures fell low enough that my dad's fridge did not need to run most nights. We never used my dad's inverter, while mine was used often for charging cammera batteries and operating the laptop (used as storage for the more than 1400 photos we took and for route planning). Despite this my battery's voltage never dropped below 12.5 Volts, while my father's seldom reached that figure.
Fortunately I had my multimeter, so we could conduct some tests. I believe the main reason for the difference in performance is the following: When charging, the voltage in both my batteries is between 13.5 and 13.8 Volts (this is measured at the battery) while my father's system has approximately the same voltage at the car's baatery but only between 12.7 and 12.9 Volt at the second battery. This means that my battery gets about 30 Amps, while my dad's only gets about 10-13 Amps. In other words, because of the voltage drops present in my Dad's system, his battery charges at less than half the rate that mine does. Note that these figures were measured in the early morning, and the situation gets even worse as the batteries get fuller. This is because a battery is only full at 12.5Volt or more, and the charging rate is determined by the difference in the voltage between the battery and the charging system.
The technical reasons for my dad's voltage drop are as follows:
1) The Cole-Hershee solenoid deteriorates over time and creates a drop. (some sources say as much as 1 Volt)
2) The wiring in my dad's system is much longer than mine, however on the flip side it is much heavier, 40mm^2 as opposed to 10mm^2
3) My dad's system has two plug connections (Brad Harrisons), while mine only has one (the fuse).
Before our trip we installed a PBE charging system in one of the other cars, but without any drains. This was done because we expected to have power issues and we wanted a backup. At one point we swopped the battery from this system with the one in my dad's system. When we stopped after 3 hour's driving, the battery was fully charged.
As a footnote I have to say the following:
1) I have received excellent service from PBE. On one occasion I thought my system was faulty, and Pieter Snr spent an hour checking my system on a wednesday night, without charging me a cent.
2) My dad has similarly received excellent service from National Luna
3) I have no knowledge on any other systems than those described here, but I will never install a system using a solenoid again.
Cheers
Peter
Mag ons ons kenniskry met lekkerkry aanhoukry.
Re: Dual battery systems
I also have the PBE system in place for the past 2 years. Not a days problem and my battery is always charged at the correct level. My friend also makes use of the PBE system and he is also very happy with the service that he received from them.
- Jules
- Patrolman 1000+
- Posts: 1641
- Joined: 08 Apr 2009 09:13
- Full Name: Julius
- Nickname: Jules
- Home Town: Rietjiesvlei, Zoeloeland
- Current 4x4: Pathfinder
GQ Patrol - Home Language: AFR
- Has thanked: 94 times
- Been thanked: 75 times
Re: Dual battery systems
Thanks for feedback sofar,
Wheels is yours a permanent fixture or can you remove the unit and use it away from your Patrol
Shalom
Jules
Wheels is yours a permanent fixture or can you remove the unit and use it away from your Patrol
Shalom
Jules
Walk by FAITH not by sight
2014 Pathfinder 2.5 LE
Stofpad 4x4 Bashplate
42&60L Snomaster Freezer/Fridge
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-
- Patrolman
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- Full Name: JG Shields
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- Location: Pretoria
Re: Dual battery systems
Jules,
I have a removeable system which I build myself.
1. The system feeds from the main battery via a "solenoid" switch which I control from inside the car. The wiring runs to the luggage compartment (1 outlet) and the trailer hook (second outlet) with Henderson plugs. My trailor obviously also has an extension wiring system installed.
2. The system consist of a 100ah Calcium battery build into a normal wolfpack crate. The crate also has a 10A 220V battery charger build in with various outlets for different applications such as my Engel fridge, Hella socket, normal 12V cigarette lighter socket, Banana connector etc, all directed through its own fuse. I also have a "battery guard" installed for battery protection. Inside the box is also enough space for my electrical tools, assecories and spares, tugged away in their own toolbox.
3. The reason for the wolfpack is compatibility with the rest of my packing configuration, which is wolfpack based. I can place the battery pack wherever I feel like, in the car or the trailer where it can be linked with the main electric feeding line.
4. Why the removeable system? I do 2 types of travel namely overlanding and static camping at remote places. With the overlanding trips my battery pack has a special compartment inside my packing/drawer system where it stays. From there I can plug anything to it. With the static camp, I put the battery pack at a strategic place in my tent from where it distributes power to my fridge, lights etc. It charges via an extention from my generator some distance away from the tent. For this purpose I have build various kinds of extetions cords which is adaptable to different usage configurations.
Lekker speel!
I have a removeable system which I build myself.
1. The system feeds from the main battery via a "solenoid" switch which I control from inside the car. The wiring runs to the luggage compartment (1 outlet) and the trailer hook (second outlet) with Henderson plugs. My trailor obviously also has an extension wiring system installed.
2. The system consist of a 100ah Calcium battery build into a normal wolfpack crate. The crate also has a 10A 220V battery charger build in with various outlets for different applications such as my Engel fridge, Hella socket, normal 12V cigarette lighter socket, Banana connector etc, all directed through its own fuse. I also have a "battery guard" installed for battery protection. Inside the box is also enough space for my electrical tools, assecories and spares, tugged away in their own toolbox.
3. The reason for the wolfpack is compatibility with the rest of my packing configuration, which is wolfpack based. I can place the battery pack wherever I feel like, in the car or the trailer where it can be linked with the main electric feeding line.
4. Why the removeable system? I do 2 types of travel namely overlanding and static camping at remote places. With the overlanding trips my battery pack has a special compartment inside my packing/drawer system where it stays. From there I can plug anything to it. With the static camp, I put the battery pack at a strategic place in my tent from where it distributes power to my fridge, lights etc. It charges via an extention from my generator some distance away from the tent. For this purpose I have build various kinds of extetions cords which is adaptable to different usage configurations.
Lekker speel!
Patrol fan!
- Jules
- Patrolman 1000+
- Posts: 1641
- Joined: 08 Apr 2009 09:13
- Full Name: Julius
- Nickname: Jules
- Home Town: Rietjiesvlei, Zoeloeland
- Current 4x4: Pathfinder
GQ Patrol - Home Language: AFR
- Has thanked: 94 times
- Been thanked: 75 times
Re: Dual battery systems
JG you make use of a solenoid, Peter does not want to see a solenoid again now what the heck must this beancounter do??
Thanks vir jul idees en wat werk by julle moet sê dit maak die besluit glad nie makliker nie
Shalom
Jules
Thanks vir jul idees en wat werk by julle moet sê dit maak die besluit glad nie makliker nie
Shalom
Jules
Walk by FAITH not by sight
2014 Pathfinder 2.5 LE
Stofpad 4x4 Bashplate
42&60L Snomaster Freezer/Fridge
Buzzard Industries Overlander Trailer
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Stofpad 4x4 Bashplate
42&60L Snomaster Freezer/Fridge
Buzzard Industries Overlander Trailer
-
- Patrolman
- Posts: 545
- Joined: 07 May 2009 09:14
- Full Name: Jacobus William Best
- Nickname: Kosie
- Home Town: MTUNZINI, Zululand coast
- Current 4x4: Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6
- Home Language: TWEETALIG
Re: Dual battery systems
OK manne stop die lorrie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The latest method of charging a aux. battery is not by the ridiculous overpriced NL system and others, or solenoids.
Believe it or not but battery charger.
But a DC2DC CHARGER
Yes read all about it in Comm 4x4 , ie. you buy a DC2DC charger , connect it to your primary battery and the other side to your Aux batteries and voila , the most efficient way of charging, that uses the least amount of Amps, but converts to the most amounts of amps to charge.
A friend have just done his D3 with this, cost R 1500.00.The charger (small) was permanently mounted inside the engine bay (watertight) to charge the aux. battery.
I am a layman in this but, according to the pro,s , it will never leave your primary battery flat, and will charge a 105 A/H flat bat. in 2- 3hrs.It apparently converts the amps to a very high charge rating, this method also puts less strain on the alternator.
There is a big thread about this on the 4x4 community forum.
Before you invest in any NL system or like , look at this method.
I will try and find the info and post it, sorry cant do it now.
The latest method of charging a aux. battery is not by the ridiculous overpriced NL system and others, or solenoids.
Believe it or not but battery charger.
But a DC2DC CHARGER
Yes read all about it in Comm 4x4 , ie. you buy a DC2DC charger , connect it to your primary battery and the other side to your Aux batteries and voila , the most efficient way of charging, that uses the least amount of Amps, but converts to the most amounts of amps to charge.
A friend have just done his D3 with this, cost R 1500.00.The charger (small) was permanently mounted inside the engine bay (watertight) to charge the aux. battery.
I am a layman in this but, according to the pro,s , it will never leave your primary battery flat, and will charge a 105 A/H flat bat. in 2- 3hrs.It apparently converts the amps to a very high charge rating, this method also puts less strain on the alternator.
There is a big thread about this on the 4x4 community forum.
Before you invest in any NL system or like , look at this method.
I will try and find the info and post it, sorry cant do it now.
Koos Best(Kosie)Mtunzini Zululand
Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6
Patrol GU 2003 3.0d GRX (SOLD 2010)
Patrol GQ 1996 4.2d ST(SOLD 2007)
Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6
Patrol GU 2003 3.0d GRX (SOLD 2010)
Patrol GQ 1996 4.2d ST(SOLD 2007)
-
- Patrolman
- Posts: 545
- Joined: 07 May 2009 09:14
- Full Name: Jacobus William Best
- Nickname: Kosie
- Home Town: MTUNZINI, Zululand coast
- Current 4x4: Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6
- Home Language: TWEETALIG
Re: Dual battery systems
Sjoe , dit thread is al meer as 11 bladsye.
Lees dit , dit het die hele bat. charging storie verander.
http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sho ... hp?t=49629
Lees dit , dit het die hele bat. charging storie verander.
http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sho ... hp?t=49629
Koos Best(Kosie)Mtunzini Zululand
Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6
Patrol GU 2003 3.0d GRX (SOLD 2010)
Patrol GQ 1996 4.2d ST(SOLD 2007)
Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6
Patrol GU 2003 3.0d GRX (SOLD 2010)
Patrol GQ 1996 4.2d ST(SOLD 2007)
- Jules
- Patrolman 1000+
- Posts: 1641
- Joined: 08 Apr 2009 09:13
- Full Name: Julius
- Nickname: Jules
- Home Town: Rietjiesvlei, Zoeloeland
- Current 4x4: Pathfinder
GQ Patrol - Home Language: AFR
- Has thanked: 94 times
- Been thanked: 75 times
Re: Dual battery systems
Thanks Koos, ek het hom al voorheem raakgelees maar kon nie onthou waar nie, sal hom copy en paste.
Shalom
Jules
Shalom
Jules
Walk by FAITH not by sight
2014 Pathfinder 2.5 LE
Stofpad 4x4 Bashplate
42&60L Snomaster Freezer/Fridge
Buzzard Industries Overlander Trailer
2014 Pathfinder 2.5 LE
Stofpad 4x4 Bashplate
42&60L Snomaster Freezer/Fridge
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