Front Axle Lockers

Transmissions, Transfer Boxes, Axles, Drive Shafts
User avatar
Kagiso II
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 3666
Joined: 10 Jun 2009 16:58
Full Name: Mac Mc Menamin
Nickname: Oom Mac [Uncle Mac] [Uncle] [Oompie] Kagiso
Home Town: BrentwoodPark, Benoni
Current 4x4: 1982 Datsun Safari 2,8 aka LOBO; [1,300,000 Km verby !]
'99 PATROL 4,2 diesel.
2012 Jimny [SWAMBO se Kantoor-toe]
Home Language: AFRIKAANS
Location: Benoni and wherever the Outreach takes me.
Has thanked: 291 times
Been thanked: 109 times
Contact:

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by Kagiso II » 05 May 2017 10:57

Hubs and diff lockers are above my common sense to fathom .. On Boezman the HARDBODY I had Auto locking hubs in front. I bought a set of manual locking hubs from Commercial and had that fitted ..
On the Patrol [Agarob] I had, it was this "you choose" set up .. The lock by themselves when 4x4 is engaged and the STAY locked going fwd or reversing as long as the transfer case is sending motion to the front wheels. I Never once found it necessary to use the wheel spanner on Agarob to lock the front hubs additionally.

Now I have iNyathi. 4.2 Diesel Patrol Y61. % speed manual .. and over and the above the standard Patrol 4x4 system as we all know, he has front diff lock as well [ARB nogal ...] .. It is a MASSIVE aid in tricky climbs and clambers sand and mud .. BUT steering exact becomes a bit of a problem. [It take more driver input to go where you should, not where the car wants to go, thus keeping the correct line is not as easy [SOMETIMES I deliberately take the WRONG line .. because I CAN :biggrin: :biggrin: ]

As for Auto diff lockers, I had my doubts -- Until Mike Swann i fitted as set of OZZI LOCKERS [auto lockers] on the Prado's rear axle .. And WHAT A PLEASURE they were .. I would anyday again install AUTO DIFF LOCK on the rear axle .. only neg is that it "clax clax clax" when you turn sharp on solid [i.e tar etc] surfaces.
Those auto ozzi lockers more than doubled the Prado's ability off road. If I was to buy a vehocle with LSD now, I would replace it with aut lockers straight away

I yet have to test and experience auto diff lock on the front axle ...
Don't bring God down to your level of faith ... bring your faith up to His level!

User avatar
biggles
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 470
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 05:17
Full Name: Steven
Nickname: Steve
Home Town: Durbanville
Current 4x4: GUII Patrol 4.8
Home Language: English
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by biggles » 05 May 2017 11:05

Peter Connan wrote:
I may be starting to sound like a wet blanket, but I wonder about the the behaviour of auto hubs and auto locker together. I think the auto locker could accelerate wear and tear on auto-locking hubs substantially?
I agree, the impression I get is that the autolock is a fragile mechanism and I almost always have them locked when in 4x4. But my troll lives a black and white life. It is either off road or on road. My work bakkie lives a grey life. I will maybe have it in and out of 4x4 several times a day.

The high speed 4x4 on loose gravels roads is a definite drawback. And handling is effected in those conditions. People talk about having to adapt their driving style or becoming more sedate. I have engaged 4x4 under those conditions and I did not feel much difference in handling. So I don't think I would loose much by not engaging 4x4 when on gravel.
With great Power comes Great Fuel Consumption
:layrubber:

mvcoller
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 232
Joined: 07 Apr 2009 07:13
Full Name: Malcolm van Coller
Nickname: mvcoller
Home Town: Kensington, Jhb
Current 4x4: 2008 3.0 Di Patrol GL
and
2011 2.5 Di Pathfinder LE
Home Language: Afr & Eng
Location: Kensington, Jhb
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 38 times
Contact:

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by mvcoller » 11 Sep 2017 22:23

I have bought two Lokkas, one fitted on my 2011 2.5 Tdi Pathfinder and one NOT YET FITTED for my 2008 3.0 TDi Patrol.

I decided on the front lockers on these vehicles after experiencing my 1999 Terrano (now sold) that came standard with a LSD in the rear and I fitted a LSD in the front as well. It was all that was available at the time at a reasonable price for the Terrano, that must have have been around 2003 or 2004. Well, that transformed the Terrano! It was certainly a heck of a lot more capable!

If I could choose, I would go with a LSD in the rear and a locker up front. A lot of people will not agree with me, but the LSD makes a lot more sense on tar and hard surface roads. With a locker in the rear, you are forced to drive with an open diff on tar. I drive quite aggressively and when turning right in heavy traffic, with oncoming cars, a LSD bites and you can take off like a rocket. The Pathfinder scares me sometimes, when as soon as the tyres chirp, the power is cut midway into the turn and it does cause a certain amount of panic at times. An open diff will just lift the inside rear wheel, causing excessive wheelspin, the tyre will chirp, even smoke, but there would be slow or very little forward movement.

Most limited slip diffs are set up with about 75% slip and 25% bite, but you can induce it to bite a lot sooner if you know how to (I raced old Alfas Berlinas and Giulias, that came [some standard] with LSDs) in the inland regions, at Kyalami, Zwartkops, Midvaal, Welkom and even sometimes in East London and Killarney and had plenty of practice on how to cause the diff to lock up prematurely and corner with the help of a right foot. The guys with the Escorts raced with welded (locked) diffs, and on tar the LSD had a distinct handling advantage over a locked diff.

There is also of course the option to "tighten up" your LSD from 25% to around 75% bite, either by fitting more clutches or flattening the "ramps" in the diff internals to lock it up more easily. Do not underestimate a LSD!

The front Lokkas are quite cheap and work quite well, but the import duty makes it about 50% more expensive, with Custom Duties (about 20 %), handling fees (Post Office) and the VAT on top of all that! These fees came to R1900 on top of the roughly R4500 for the Lokka when I imported it for the Patrol a year ago. Delivery takes about two weeks.

I took the Pathfinder to Gearmax here in Jhb to fit the Lokka, and they charged about R2500 to R3000 about 4 years ago. On the Pathfinder, the front hubs are autolocking so I presume it will be slightly different handling characteristics between the Pathfinder and the Patrol, but I could be wrong. On the Pathfinder you do feel the steering gets a bit tighter and wants to straighten out all the time. But after a while you get used to it and hardly notice the "pull".

I have never been one to go into 4wheel drive on dirt roads, I prefer two wheel drive unless there are lots of loose pebbles (marbles), then I will go into 4WD. I prefer driving where I can induce understeer on dirt. On (the slower) trails you are constantly aware of the pull on the steering, always wanting to return to the straight ahead position. It is not annoyingly so, but you do feel it all the time. It is also not so hard that you can't hold it to go where you want it to go.

Where I do feel one heck of an improvement is on steeper inclines and on slippery mud. I would really recommend the front Lokka going by the improvement of grip on the Pathfinder.

I will soon take the Patrol to my mechanic to fit the Lokka to the front of the Patrol, but I am not planning an offroad excursion with the Patrol any time soon to go and test it out.

User avatar
davidvdm
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 468
Joined: 13 Sep 2011 15:47
Full Name: David vd Merwe
Nickname: David - Hillbilly
Home Town: Carletonville
Current 4x4: 1997 2.7TD Nissan Sani Mk3 4x4 SFA (SAFANI)
Home Language: English/Afrikaans
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by davidvdm » 12 Sep 2017 07:07

All this talk makes me think I have the wrong diff in the front of my Sani. Currently have a C200 that has nearly zero options for lockers. But do you get the H233 in a 4.88 ratio?
My H260 rear has the standard LSD that so far looks to be nice and tight (not in the car yet, but it's horrible to try and move around in the garage with both wheels locked together). I see for under $10Aus, I can get additional set of friction plates to tighten it up more.

But what to do on the front? Only option seems to be ARB at nearly R30k :surprised: Thats half the value of the Sani....
David - Bfreesani
1997 Nissan Sani MK3 2.7TD - Hillbilly (SAFANI)
MQ C200 SFA
MQ H260 LSD Rear
MQ Transfer as second low range
5" Lift
33"x12.5x15" tires on 8.5J rims - Want 35's
DIY rock sliders
DIY Snorkel
Madman EMS

User avatar
biggles
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 470
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 05:17
Full Name: Steven
Nickname: Steve
Home Town: Durbanville
Current 4x4: GUII Patrol 4.8
Home Language: English
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by biggles » 18 Oct 2017 08:13

After the Baboons trip I can give a report back on how the Lockright performed:

I believe it is the perfect solution for the front of our vehicles. After I engaged 4x4 and locked the hubs the steering felt heavy. And I definitely felt the locker. After a few km I quite literally forgot it was there. The front is always locked so when crawling you get no wheelspin (unless both wheels are spinning). After a few km I did not feel resistance in the steering wheel. Almost like it needed to loosen up with some use.

As we need to engage the 4x4 before you get drive to the front axle and the autolock hubs do not engage until they get torque from the axle, in 4x2 the front axle does not move and having an autolocker in front will not have any effect on the vehicles driving characteristics. When you lock the hubs and engage 4x4 the front axle is locked. The Lockright only unlocks when it gets opposite torque from each axle (when you turn). when you lift a wheel you only get torque from one wheel so it doesn't unlock. I quite literally got used to the extra traction.

Quite frankly I am over the moon. For 7,700 cleared in SA.

A downside I have not explored yet is for people that engage 4x4 when driving fast on gravel roads. Then the locker will probably impact driving characteristics. I suppose I will try testing that sometime. It is not something I would do personally, I drive 4x2 at speed. I believe having not having a centre diff alone will adversely effect road handling but that is a debate by itself.

Contact Mike Swann, of Nisanzi he imported and advised me for the Powertrax Lockright. There is an australian one as well. That was slightly more expensive. As for strenght, some will argue you get stronger units, it handled the power of the "stormtrooper" up baboons for 8 hours of rock crawling. I doubt it will get a harder work out again.
Last edited by biggles on 18 Oct 2017 10:54, edited 1 time in total.
With great Power comes Great Fuel Consumption
:layrubber:

User avatar
ricster
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 5954
Joined: 13 Jan 2010 11:16
Full Name: Cedric Warner
Nickname: Cedric
Home Town: Alberton Gauteng
Current 4x4: '99 Nissan Patrol 4.2 Turbo Diesel
Home Language: English
Location: LA..... No not Los Angles ..... Lower Alberton, Gauteng
Has thanked: 255 times
Been thanked: 255 times

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by ricster » 18 Oct 2017 09:34

I stand corrected on this and maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, and was told, the Patrols do have a center diff lock, to split the power 50/50 to the front and rear axle, obviously only when 4x4 is engaged. Again I speak under correction, but this is due to the Patrols not having a standard front diff lock, like the Cruisers.
Regards
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD

User avatar
biggles
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 470
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 05:17
Full Name: Steven
Nickname: Steve
Home Town: Durbanville
Current 4x4: GUII Patrol 4.8
Home Language: English
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by biggles » 18 Oct 2017 10:48

ricster wrote:I stand corrected on this and maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, and was told, the Patrols do have a center diff lock, to split the power 50/50 to the front and rear axle, obviously only when 4x4 is engaged. Again I speak under correction, but this is due to the Patrols not having a standard front diff lock, like the Cruisers.
Sort of correct. They do not have a differential in the centre, so it is the same result as a locked diff. That is my point, with a differential in the middle you get what they call permanent 4x4 where you can drive it on the road. Land drovers, some Jeeps, etc. Our patrols, not having a differential in the middle should not be driven at speed or on high traction surfaces in 4x4. So there is no difflock as such... because there is no diff iether.
With great Power comes Great Fuel Consumption
:layrubber:

User avatar
ricster
Patrolman 1000+
Patrolman 1000+
Posts: 5954
Joined: 13 Jan 2010 11:16
Full Name: Cedric Warner
Nickname: Cedric
Home Town: Alberton Gauteng
Current 4x4: '99 Nissan Patrol 4.2 Turbo Diesel
Home Language: English
Location: LA..... No not Los Angles ..... Lower Alberton, Gauteng
Has thanked: 255 times
Been thanked: 255 times

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by ricster » 18 Oct 2017 11:11

:thumbup: :thumbup: ... makes better sense now
Regards
Cedric
Nissan Patrol GL 4.2 Diesel Turbo (Iron Maiden)
Nissan SANI 3.0 V6 4x4 (SOLD)
Isuzu KB 280 DT 2x4 ('ol Smokey) - SOLD
Suzuki TL 1000R "V twin" (Growler) - SOLD

Picasso
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 309
Joined: 27 Jul 2014 15:56
Full Name: HS
Nickname: Picasso
Home Town: Pretoria
Current 4x4: Nissan Patrol
T3 Syncro
Home Language: German
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by Picasso » 18 Oct 2017 11:26

To Steve


How would you rate the performance of your vehicle (with front and rear locker) compared to the other vehicles (incl. the Jeep Wrangler with 2 lockers) which did the Baboon Pass ? :think:

andredurand
Patrolman
Patrolman
Posts: 549
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 17:24
Full Name: andre durand
Nickname: leeuloop
Home Town: Alberton
Current 4x4: 2001Nissan Patrol 4.5

Jurgens xt 140 sleepwa
Home Language: afr
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: Front Axle Lockers

Post by andredurand » 19 Oct 2017 04:55

Can you please PM me Mike Swann phone no or post it thank you
Andre Durand
Nissan 4.5 Patrol
Nissan Juke
Jurgens xt 140

Post Reply

Return to “10. Drivetrain”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest