4.8L Performance upgrade options

Engines and Engine Systems
Mystical_Beast
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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by Mystical_Beast » 17 Jul 2018 16:54

I have just dyno'd my Patrol to get base results before super-charging.
I don't have the graph but my readings off a standard Patrol, standard exhaust etc were 134 KW at the wheels.

My previous Patrol Stage 1, similar to what you have just had done, figures are pretty much in line with what you got.

You need to look at run 1 as that is stage 1.

The Run 2 is after super charger.

I don't think RBTS is too far from reality if you compare your graphs with mine.
Although I cannot vouch for them or SAC having used neither.

I maintain that on a NA motor your biggest improvements will come form an engine that tuned optimally.
And then those results again will differ dependant on the skill of the said tuner.
SCAN_20180717_164355276.jpg
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Mystical_Beast
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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by Mystical_Beast » 17 Jul 2018 16:59

So if my current standard run is 134 kw,
After stage 1 on the previous patrol i got to 142 kw

That is a mere 6 % improvement, I've always understood that around 8 % is the best you can hope for with exhaust and chip.

Although I'm taking results from two different vehicles, I would imagine they would be reasonably close in stand rad from.

My new Patrol however does feel stronger standard than the one I had before ... standard

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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by Mystical_Beast » 17 Jul 2018 17:15

I looked initially at the KW graph

But if I look at the Torque graph the numbers look poor.

Is that because they calculate figures back to the wheels or are those flywheel values?

There is another thing here, is your petrol pump delivering enough fuel?

I know a lot of people dont like RGM, maybe its their pricing, I'm not sure but if they break something they will fix it and if your readings are not what they should be they will investigate why.

I suspect your exhaust system has lost all your torque, in that it is 76 mm all the way through, so you have lost the low down and only have power at the top.

Ideally the down pipe should be around 57mm to provide a bit of back pressure and then go to a larger pipe after the first box.

I'm no expert but that's how I understand it, in that you need a bit of back-pressure to give you the low down torque.
Rather than straight out power at the top.

In you current scenario, I dont think youre going to be happy should you tow.

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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by CarloG » 17 Jul 2018 17:16

Mystical_Beast wrote:
17 Jul 2018 16:59

That is a mere 6 % improvement, I've always understood that around 8 % is the best you can hope for with exhaust and chip.
Thanks for that info. I was also expecting about 5%-10%, which is makes me doubt the 30% increase quoted by RBTS. In any event they are what they are.

Interesting hat after your stage one you peaked at 500NM and 142KW whereas the highest i seem to read is around 318NM and 131KW. Surely that torque difference points to an issue?
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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by CarloG » 17 Jul 2018 17:19

Mystical_Beast wrote:
17 Jul 2018 17:15
I looked initially at the KW graph

But if I look at the Torque graph the numbers look poor.

Is that because they calculate figures back to the wheels or are those flywheel values?

Those are back wheel numbers

There is another thing here, is your petrol pump delivering enough fuel?

I know a lot of people dont like RGM, maybe its their pricing, I'm not sure but if they break something they will fix it and if your readings are not what they should be they will investigate why.

I suspect your exhaust system has lost all your torque, in that it is 76 mm all the way through, so you have lost the low down and only have power at the top.

Ideally the down pipe should be around 57mm to provide a bit of back pressure and then go to a larger pipe after the first box.

I actually agree with you but had both the guys at SAC and Viper insist that they needed to be 76mm all the way through (after the branches). RGM did explain the way you did

I'm no expert but that's how I understand it, in that you need a bit of back-pressure to give you the low down torque.
Rather than straight out power at the top.

In you current scenario, I dont think youre going to be happy should you tow.

and that was the only reason i was doing this....
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Mystical_Beast
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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by Mystical_Beast » 17 Jul 2018 17:28

Sorry man

Either way its money spent and you want some result for what you paid for.

You could always swing past RGM and ask them to check the mapping for you.?

If there is room for improvement I have no doubt they will find it.

One thing, they wont bullsh1t you.

So while it might not be what you want to hear they will give you the low down.

There has been a big change in the after market exhaust field thinking and it took RGM 7 years to work it out themselves.
Their actual exhaust guy told me this themselves

The thinking now is not to accumulate the two banks in a single down pipe, but rather two separate pipes into first box and then one out of it.

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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by Mystical_Beast » 17 Jul 2018 17:41

Carlo

Just spoke to Steven from RGM.

Says you are welcome to pass by in the morning and he will run your car and verify figures for you.

Did say that your figures sounded crappy but that he would like to put it on the Dyno and see.

Your call..

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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by CarloG » 17 Jul 2018 17:45

That’s quick work!! :blonde: my car is at mikem getting a new suspension :woo: I’ll have it back on Thursday.
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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by Tinus lotz » 17 Jul 2018 20:31

This is just my opinion please dont thow me with rocks.
Take your car to SAC in centorion do a power run ....they dont need to prove or validate anything ...it cost 150 buks ...do it before you go anyware else these dino figures some flywheel some motor doesnt work for me...you measure wheel power with no % added for anything ...then we know whats what :mytwocents:

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Re: 4.8L Performance upgrade options

Post by CarloG » 17 Jul 2018 20:51

Tinus lotz wrote:
17 Jul 2018 20:31
This is just my opinion please dont thow me with rocks.
Take your car to SAC in centorion do a power run ....they dont need to prove or validate anything ...it cost 150 buks ...do it before you go anyware else these dino figures some flywheel some motor doesnt work for me...you measure wheel power with no % added for anything ...then we know whats what :mytwocents:
Hey Tinus - did 3 runs before and 4 runs after at SAC Centurion. They were my "independent" baseline. I even did a run in 4x4 high, 3rd gear, for interest.

They were great i.t.o. service. on time, allowed me to be present and were R150 compared to R800 at one other place.
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